[WislaHD]

I'm beginning to expect deferral tomorrow. Pro-Boulevard councilors will prefer to see the debate postponed than voted in favor of Hybrid. There are enough on-the-fence and hybrid skeptical councilors that Tory does not have in his pocket to push the deferral vote in favor of a majority. Hopefully this means new options (such as boulevard with underpasses) are suggested before the next vote, and ramifications of the C3 lawsuit emerge.

Since I am making predictions here, Tory will go whichever way council goes with the SSE.

Council will vote in favor of SmartTrack - there is no real reason for any Councilor minus Rob Ford to not too. Transit is transit, and it is not like SmartTrack is a bad idea and the staff reports will return recommending it. They may chose to amend it to remove the Eglinton spur though.

 

[goreckm]

I think Tory's advocacy for the Hybrid option might prove to be fatal for his reelection prospects. From what I've been reading, his very public efforts for the hybrid option has created a lot of bad blood between him and a significant part of Council. These councillors will now be less willing to work with Tory when SmartTrack is up for vote. Tory probably would have been better off letting councillors lead the discussion around the Gardiner, saving his political capital for ST.

If the SmartTrack studies come back saying that it's a great idea, I'd expect him to have no trouble getting it through council. I the studies say its expensive, with little merit, then I wouldn't be surprised if Council votes against the idea, regardless of Tory's objection. As you said, this would be fatal for Tory.

This is Toronto we're talking about here. Unfortunately, the way politics in our city works, John Tory will be mayor until he decides to not run again, or some kind of massive scandal is revealed (which I sincerely doubt). We'll have to endure this man for a while yet I would bet.

 

[BurlOak]

This is Toronto we're talking about here. Unfortunately, the way politics in our city works, John Tory will be mayor until he decides to not run again, or some kind of massive scandal is revealed (which I sincerely doubt). We'll have to endure this man for a while yet I would bet.

It works that way more for Councillors than Mayor. For mayor, people can follow the issues and where the mayor stands on them, so they make a reasonably informed vote. For Councillor, there is not much in the news about were they stand, so it is basically name recognition. I am sure that half the electorate have no idea that the Mayor has as little power as he actually does.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Time is running out. The East Gardiner needs to either be taken down or rebuilt. The status quo won't last for long. I don't recall the exact number but in under 5 years, parts of the Gardiner East will need to start being shut down because they're not safe. Staff needs the decision right now because they need time to to start planning for its eventual replacement.

Hear, hear. Despite the fact that I really, really hate the elevated expressway, they've got to deal with this at this council meeting and get something started. It's the coward's way out to 'defer' this at this point. Any Councillor that doesn't have enough information to make a decision has been willfully deaf and blind for a year or more. The twit that had the Twitter exchange with allabootmatt was should be hung by her thumbs...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The twit that had the Twitter exchange with allabootmatt was should be hung by her thumbs...

Link please?

AoD

 

[vic]

Glad to see that Doug Ford is throwing his support to the "Tearing down" side.

https://twitter.com/80sDougFord/status/608608504375595009

@80sDougFord
Yeah, of course I'm in favour of tearing down the Gardiner. I do it all the f*ckin' time in my Camaro #TOpoli

 

[aquateam]

Because the road and new ramps go right through the vacant land at the "Home Depot lands" - between Cherry & Parliament - and the road runs along the Keating Channel which has the potential to be prime residential land..

"Home Depot lands". Just like how it's fashionable to give reference to the historical industrial character of areas (e.g. Distillery District gets Whiskey beach, Sugar Beach references the factory nearby, Stockyards neighbourhood) I have this mental picture of people in Toronto in 2100 living between Cherry and Parliament in the "Home Improvement District" at their fancy new "Renovation Park", drinking craft brew out of paint buckets.

Torontoist did a fact-checking of John Tory's speech at the Empire Club last Monday. Spoiler alert: he lied 36 times.

http://torontoist.com/2015/06/john-tory-goes-full-ford-in-his-gardiner-expressway-speech/

No he did not.

The authors of that paper are biased against Tory (I will give more details below). However, your statement is much more biased than the original paper.

The authors counted 22 statements in Tory's speech that they consider "straight-up falsehoods", marked red; and 14 statements that "may be disingenuous or questionable", marked yellow. The latter 14 are certainly not "lies".

My own analysis of the 22 statements in red:

- 8 are, indeed, falsehoods, and are relevant for the current debate

- 2 are falsehoods but apply to historical events and have little relevance for the current debate; most likely, they are not "lies" but rather results of ignorance

- 12 statements are debatable to various degrees, but not necessarily wrong

I will not give full list here, just one example: the authors counted a "lie" when Tory "cherry-picks one statistic from a U of T report commissioned by pro-hybrid lobbyists". IMO, it is a highly questionable practice to dismiss scientists by calling them "lobbyists"; that way one can dismiss any scientific results. And in any case, Tory cannot know who is a lobbyist and who is not. It is not surprising that he has some trust in U of T researchers.

Bottom line, you can't fight misinformation with much greater misinformation on your own.

Yeah, the fact check could use its own fact check. For instance, I don't see how Tory giving the Westway as an example of an elevated highway with a good pedestrian realm is somehow disproved by it being reconstructed to add bikelanes. Or how Tory listing 10 minutes in the range of possible delays is false, given that they accepted that it could happen for some drivers earlier on. I used to really like Torontoist, especially back when they did the Rob Ford Radio Recap. But I've become painfully aware of how politically biased they are, and the comment section is basically an echo chamber.

Let's wait and see.

My take is that on the transportation file, SmartTrack is the only project that will have major impact on Tory's re-election prospects. If he fails to deliver SmartTrack (shovels in the ground, or at least the funding secured and detailed design work underway before the next elections), the he is toasted.

On the other hand, if he loses on Gardiner, it will leave him a bit humiliated but not really beaten. Many drivers are worried about the lost link, but not to the point when they will base their voting decision on that issue. Besides, if he personally votes for Hybrid but the majority of council chooses Boulevard, drivers will have no reason to hold it against Tory.

Even if he is defeated on SSE (but continues to support it personally), by itself it will not necessarily diminish his re-election chances. It will complicate his job in many respects though.

This is Toronto we're talking about here. Unfortunately, the way politics in our city works, John Tory will be mayor until he decides to not run again, or some kind of massive scandal is revealed (which I sincerely doubt). We'll have to endure this man for a while yet I would bet.

+1

Rob Ford smoked crack, went on constant drug and alcohol binges, hung out with criminals, had his brother stand in for him for election at the last minute and still came a close second in the last election. I really doubt that John Tory has anything to worry about, especially given his willingness to shift positions given enough pressure (e.g. carding).

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Link please?

AoD

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...guBMmD1L6zOnPGHKLUdCIuQ&bvm=bv.95039771,d.aWw

Storify from Matt. Hope this works as I can't actually access Twitter itself at work. It was Liz West, the two-time Paula Fletcher challenger in Riverdale.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Thanks- oh THAT exchange. FYI I don't think GraphicMatt is allabootmatt.

AoD

 

[Tuscani01]

Reading through that exchange, I was beginning to get really frustrated with Liz West. Then I got to then end and actually appreciated her approach. I wonder how many others are supporting the hybrid option assuming its still the same as the original hybrid proposed by First Gulf? I also wonder how many of those people would be as willing as Liz West to change her opinion on the hybrid option after finding out it isnt what they think it is.

 

[salsa]

I just noticed something as I was looking through the slides again. The mayor believes in the possibility of creating vibrant public spaces under the Gardiner, however the area you see highlighted in yellow is a new road that will connect Lakeshore to the new Cherry St ramps. Doesn't that kinda limit the opportunities?

 

[Tuscani01]

I just noticed something as I was looking through the slides again. The mayor believes in the possibility of creating vibrant public spaces under the Gardiner, however the area you see highlighted in yellow is a new road that will connect Lakeshore to the new Cherry St ramps. Doesn't that kinda limit the opportunities?

View attachment 48264

It still gives you a pretty decently sized space along the edge to do something with, but not a fan of the road and plan. Not a fan of the ramps at all. Jarvis should be the last opportunity to exit the Gardiner, and thats it. No need for a new exit on Cherry.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

The issue there is that about half of the eastern Gardiner traffic goes to Lakeshore rather than continuing to the DVP so you would end up with a seriously underused Gardiner AND a busy Lakeshore Blvd.

That being said that eastbound off ramp looks terrible; I would think they could figure out something better.

 

[Eug]

Dunno if this was posted, but yesterday The Star posted an article about the bickering between Toronto's chief planner and John Tory's minions.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city-ha...d-rage-sidelines-toronto-s-chief-planner.html

I don't remember all the details. Her voice should be heard, but I too would think the line wa crossed if she actually stood side by side with council members in a press conference supporting the tear down option. What did she actually do?

In any case, Toronto City Council has a habit of not listening to its own experts and planners and just doing its own thing. I think the elephant habitat thing was a prime example of this. Instead of listening to experts at the Toronto Zoo, they chose instead to listen to Bob Barker, and supported something a total non-expert council member suggested.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This Keesmatt situation has really pissed me off.

Public servants are free to do and say what they want. They aren't lap dogs for the mayor. If Tory has a problem with Keesmatt not agreeing with her, then he can ask Council to fire her.