[Northern Light]

According to this morning's Toronto Star; it appears the Ford government will be proceeding with Highway #413 but is mulling expanding the Greenbelt to soften
the blow as it were

In particular, they're looking at expanding its reach to cover the Paris and Galt Moraines as per a bill by Green Party leader Mike Schreiner.

A bill the Tories have let languish for the last 2 years.

They are also musing about some additional protections for the river valleys of the GTA; and possibly their headwaters.

This would be consistent with a suggested new Provincial Park somewhere in the upper reaches of the Humber River.

Its worth saying, that the the guts of the article doesn't actually provide any evidence on the Highway #413 question, noting only that the government will not remove permission for highways already allowed in the Greenbelt Act.

The article can be found here: https://outline.com/LG8YDC

I'm pleased to see some expansion of the Greenbelt moving forward; but; as that, at best, maintains the status quo in some areas; it does not offset the environmental impact of any new highways.

Moreover, its unclear at this point if any land near the new highway itself is being considered for inclusion.

As such, I can't reasonably shift my position on the highway at all; and remain opposed.

 

[allengeorge]

is mulling expanding the Greenbelt to soften
the blow as it were

That’s my take as well. They could have done this a while ago, but I think the slew of bad press on the environment front is what’s triggering this. The gutting of CAs, use of MZOs on wetlands, highway 413 running through farmland: none of it paints a pretty picture.

People in the suburbs (part of their constituency) do care about climate change, and paving over farmland doesn’t play well. Expanding the Greenbelt is a great soundbite they can use to counter that.

That said, the article wasn’t clear what “expansion” meant. How much? And how “protected” would it be?

EDIT: There is a consultation period of 60 days during which you can email greenbeltconsultation(AT)ontario.ca

 

[Northern Light]

That’s my take as well. They could have done this a while ago, but I think the slew of bad press on the environment front is what’s triggering this. The gutting of CAs, use of MZOs on wetlands, highway 413 running through farmland: none of it paints a pretty picture.

People in the suburbs (part of their constituency) do care about climate change, and paving over farmland doesn’t play well. Expanding the Greenbelt is a great soundbite they can use to counter that.

That said, the article wasn’t clear what “expansion” meant. How much? And how “protected” would it be?

EDIT: There is a consultation period of 60 days during which you can email greenbeltconsultation(AT)ontario.ca

It doesn't appear to be on the EBR site yet.

 

[kamira51]

I did some Googling about the 413 and browsed Twitter(big mistake) and people are really ill informed about this highway.

Some are calling this a "super highway"
4 lanes through "prime" farmland.

And the icing on the cake is caledon is very conservative leaning and even better is the 413 was part of dougs election platform.

 

[DirectionNorth]

I did some Googling about the 413 and browsed Twitter(big mistake) and people are really ill informed about this highway.

Some are calling this a "super highway"
4 lanes through "prime" farmland.

The icing on the cake is Caledon is very conservative leaning and even better is the 413 was part of Doug's election platform.

What if Caledon is conservative? Do conservatives don't want the highway? If so, why do we still have it?
I think a good question to ask is "Why do we need this highway?"
The answers given are to reduce congestion, and to improve access from this (developing) area to other places.
- If we really want to reduce congestion, there is always the 407 in South Brampton. We can't stop Mike Harris from selling the highway, but we can at least try to renegotiate with the 407 consortium to change the contract so tolls are not raised as quickly, and "free flowing route" can have a few more cars.
Granted, freeway access is poorer in Brampton than in the rest of the GTA, but we shouldn't be building highways to encourage sprawl. Instead, build apartments and condos (and missing middle) in areas closer to the city. I've seen whole towers full of 2-storey condos (in other countries). We can encourage developers to build these, or have the government do it. Building this highway will just continue the sprawl, with no end in sight. Does Toronto want to go the "Sunbelt route" building bypasses to the bypass of the bypass?
I have no trust in the government prioritizing stopping irresponsible sprawl over developer's pocketbooks.

 

[christiesplits]

I noted this in a different thread, but Highway 413 has put Del Duca in a predicament in his Vaughan-Woodbridge riding that he needs to win back in 2022. I imagine a majority of residents in car-obsessed Vaughan support Highway 413. I just checked CensusMapper.ca and some neighbourhoods in Woodbridge have 90%+ of residents commuting daily by car.

Yet due to the Liberal Party's connections with the environmental movement and need to win back the 416, Del Duca has come out and to vehemently oppose the highway.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I noted this in a different thread, but Highway 413 has put Del Duca in a predicament in his Vaughan-Woodbridge riding that he needs to win back in 2022. I imagine a majority of residents in car-obsessed Vaughan support Highway 413. I just checked CensusMapper.ca and some neighbourhoods in Woodbridge have 90%+ of residents commuting daily by car.

Yet due to the Liberal Party's connections with the environmental movement and need to win back the 416, Del Duca has come out and to vehemently oppose the highway.

I'd wager that most of Woodbridge is against the GTA west highway. I don't have the studies handy but I think the major commuting pattern in Woodbridge is N - S to Toronto or Mississauga/the airport centre. Not east west and especially not for the comparatively sparse northern region (the 407 is the major e - w and serves the denser south better).

Woodbridge politically is kind of an enigma imo. I think most tend to be socially and fiscally conservative in the keep taxes low and minimize social services sense. The anti development or intensification stance isn't so much about liberal environmental ideals as it is about "I got mine and so that open field should remain an open field lest my view be ruined"

A perfect example is the vmc subway which was literally justified by the vmc "downtown" plan. The subway gets built, along comes the urban style high density development proposals and the nimbyism came out swinging.

 

[Ward8]

I noted this in a different thread, but Highway 413 has put Del Duca in a predicament in his Vaughan-Woodbridge riding that he needs to win back in 2022.

I believe it was Del Duca who cancelled the project in the first place (for good reason imo). You make an interesting point, but there is a pretty "big tent" of opposition to this highway, so I'm not sure Vaughan would vote as a block on this issue. I personally have about 6 objections to this project and some of those seem to align with people of different political stripes. The high price tag coupled with the underuse of the 407 seems to be a somewhat bi-partisan complaint, though I have no doubt there will be plenty of support for new highways.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I believe it was Del Duca who cancelled the project in the first place (for good reason imo). You make an interesting point, but there is a pretty "big tent" of opposition to this highway, so I'm not sure Vaughan would vote as a block on this issue. I personally have about 6 objections to this project and some of those seem to align with people of different political stripes. The high price tag coupled with the underuse of the 407 seems to be a somewhat bi-partisan complaint, though I have no doubt there will be plenty of support for new highways.

I would be surprised if Del Duca cancelled it as it's a project that would have a direct benefit to his riding.

He was transportation minister at the time, but I suspect the order came from Wynne.

Also, like a lot of things about this project, there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around about it. I don't believe a cost estimate has been completed yet. Outside of land costs this project shouldn't be too expensive though, new build highways are typically relatively affordable per km. Judging by the construction cost of the 407 East, an approximately similar project, we would be looking at around $2-3 billion.

407 East was 65km of new highway with 4 freeway-freeway interchanges, and cost $2 billion, or about $30m/km. GTA West is ~56km of new highway with 4 freeway-freeway interchanges.

The biggest cost with freeways is flyovers, land, and bridge structures - rural freeways through areas with cheap land like the 400 extension are built for as little as $8-10 million a km.

 

[SunriseChampion]

If that highway is going to repaid by tolls and no taxpayer money will be used, then what's the issue?

Because it won't be.....not without upfront payments from the treasury. That's the issue. (Among other issues with a highway we don't need at all)

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I think king rd-king st has the potential to be upgraded to ONT hwy 9 standards and provide the cross region connection that the GTA west highway purports to provide without being a massive 400 series hwy.

Access would need to be addessed for properties along the route but luckily there aren't many properties that couldn't have access moved to another road. Bypasses would likely be required at Campbell's cross, Bolton, nobolton, and king city nut thats not something that cant be dealt with.

Imo the biggest obstacle is continuing east of yonge st where king rd ends and there's nowere to extend the road and a connection to the 404 is highly preferred. Theoretically the route could shift north to 15th/Bloomington side road and continue further east to hwy 48 or beyond.

 

[ARG1]

I think king rd-king st has the potential to be upgraded to ONT hwy 9 standards and provide the cross region connection that the GTA west highway purports to provide without being a massive 400 series hwy.

Access would need to be addessed for properties along the route but luckily there aren't many properties that couldn't have access moved to another road. Bypasses would likely be required at Campbell's cross, Bolton, nobolton, and king city nut thats not something that cant be dealt with.

Imo the biggest obstacle is continuing east of yonge st where king rd ends and there's nowere to extend the road and a connection to the 404 is highly preferred. Theoretically the route could shift north to 15th/Bloomington side road and continue further east to hwy 48 or beyond.

King Rd runs through downtown Bolton, Nobleton, some other town centres, and the route itself is quite hilly meaning that many sections are slower than 80km/h. It really wouldn't do a great job at being a cross region connector.

 

[Allandale25]

Facing fierce public backlash Caledon council does u-turn on GTA West Highway

With Caledon’s recent decision to request the federal government step in to study the GTA West Corridor, following in the footsteps of Environmental Defence and Ecojustice.

thepointer.com

 

[allengeorge]

Amazing. Just amazing.

I'm sure we'll find out that a few Councillors in Vaughan benefit from this as well; they seem to be particularly gung-ho on MZOs and sprawl there.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

King Rd runs through downtown Bolton, Nobleton, some other town centres, and the route itself is quite hilly meaning that many sections are slower than 80km/h. It really wouldn't do a great job at being a cross region connector.

I did say that bypasses would be required through those communities, but it's not like that sort of thing hasn't been done before, and that there is land available for a bypass. The hilly nature of the terrain is certainly a problem (one that can be engineered away though) but the GTA West highway is planned to go through the same area and so would be dealing with the same terrain issues.