Mulder
Active Member
Ah yes, that Brockville curve is another one!
It's been a while since I've had to design one, but can't you reduce the radius somewhat and increase the superelevation? Or is that already at the limit at 650?
number I gave you was for .06m/m super elevation for 120km/h. I don't think .08 is ever used in Canada for that high of a speed.
The thing with design speed is that it provides the minimum requirements for things like curves, grades, ditches, etc. Often, a segment of highway will not have any aspects that are as low as the design speed. The 401 is not made up of a series of 650m curves, there are straight portions where the design speed for that portion may be well above 130.
The solution is to lower the legal speed at a few critical locations. Nobody says the entire 401 needs to have the same speed. For example, 403 through Hamilton is 90 (or was it 80), while the other parts are 100. The 401 could be 120, with some small segments slower.
I am glad railways do not operate as some describe in this thread, otherwise they would have speed limits for the entire province dictated by one bad curve.
Also function of the geological features of the road. Since new highways are rarely built anymore, you follow what it was designed for.
Having segments different posted speeds is a good idea, but MTO has to look at the potential liability
The road grip of the wide 2015 wheels are much better than the road grip of the narrow "bike-wheel" style 1915 tires. Also, downforce is greater, given to the way cars are more aerodynamically designed.
Another problem... our winters and our occasionally-crooked highway surfaces. Our roadbeds only half as thick as they make it on Germans' Autobahn (almost a full meter thick of aggregate, layers and stuff)
Downforce and thicker wheels do not affect centrifugal force, if you are taking a curve to fast, you will feel as if you are falling out of it, As designers we can mitigate this by super elevating the highway. But because we are in Canada, we can only super-elevate to a certain slope, we have to keep in mind that somedays operating speed will be 120km/h and somedays it'll be 50km/h. If we put too much super elevation, on the days the highway because snowy and 50km/h the car will start to slide towards the center of the circle. (curve)
As for Aggregate, I'm currently working on a highway that recommended 1.5m of granular aggregate. I'm not sure what's typical of 401 (I start a 401 job in the new year), but I have seen in places where they put at least 4 lifts of asphalt. Remember the the aggregate is a much as a base course and it is a drainage course. It's also big reason why pipes burst in the winter, It's not because the contents of the pipe froze, it's the aggregates around the pipe that are not draining loose water, freeze/thaw and shift the pipe enough to burst.