innsertnamehere
Superstar
yes. Ultimately there are stretches of the Trans Canada with less than 2,000 vehicles daily. Not a lot of trucks are doing the Ontario-Manitoba stretch daily.
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- Thread starter Haljackey
- Start date
EYorker
New Member
I was driving up the 404 yesterday morning to Elgin Mills, and noticed the HOV lanes were unceremoniously opened to traffic north of Hwy 7 in both directions finally.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
In a Provincial presser today:
news.ontario.ca
Could we see some 130km/h speed limits coming in some locations? What?
Ontario Newsroom
news.ontario.ca
Could we see some 130km/h speed limits coming in some locations? What?
Morriston1986
New Member
Nice to see that
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
In a Provincial presser today:
Ontario Newsroom
Could we see some 130km/h speed limits coming in some locations? What?
If only OPP would enforce speeding above 130 Km/hr, I'd support it. There should be NO reason for anyone to be travelling at 150+ Km/Hr anywhere in ONT.
PL1
Active Member
Indeed. Change the limit to the enforcement speed.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I mean as it stands the gavel comes down HARD for anyone doing 150km/h.
As a whole I'm interested to see what highways they leave at current limits, and how extensive the "except where unsafe to do so" exception will be.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Do you see a lot of vehicles going 130+ or 150+? The media sites seem to have regular articles about OPP 'stunt driving enforcement.
Indeed. The penalty minimums are fairly severe (not to say some charges are plead down to 'just speeding').
If I had to guess, off the top of my head I would say:
- Approaching any border crossing
- Hwy 409 (the eastern part of the alignment sucks and it's such a short distance until you get to the PIA approaches)
- Hwy 417 through Ottawa core
- Any place approaching a transition, like the current north end of Hwy 400
- Although not a 400-series, Hwy 11 was included as a test area. I don't see its speed limit increasing south of Gravenhurst.
They might restrict all of them in the Toronto area but traffic volume generally solves that for a lot of the day.
Also, if they ever get around to transferring the Gardiner and DVP to the province, I don't see them being upgraded to 110.
Fritter
Active Member
Do you suspect the Province would keep a 90 km/h on those uploaded freeways, or upgrade to at least 100 km/h?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
403 through Hamilton and 406 through St Catharines are both under 100km/h limits today (90 and 80, respectively). I doubt those would increase to 110, though may see a 10km/h bump.
I also don't see the central 401 getting a 110 boost, probably from, say, the 427 to 404 at a minimum.
11 between Barrie and Gravenhurst and 35 could probably be fine with a 100km/h limit, but I would be relatively surprised if that occurred.
The better question is what MTO wants to do with rural freeways with at-grade intersections like parts of 11 between Gravenhurst and North Bay and the 11/17 in Northern Ontario. These roads have 100 or even 90km/h limits on them right now. Do they go right up to 110? bring the 90 limit parts to 100 and leave the rest? make no changes?
The other good question is some rural Ontario highways which aren't freeways. Rural roads commonly feature 90km/h limits in southwestern and Northern Ontario - should the province investigate bumping at least some provincial roadways to 90km/h? Particularly a highway like Highway 3 around Essex, which is still posted at 80 while being a 4-lane, dual carriageway road..
Why is this an 80km/h road:
While this is 90km/h?
I also don't see the central 401 getting a 110 boost, probably from, say, the 427 to 404 at a minimum.
11 between Barrie and Gravenhurst and 35 could probably be fine with a 100km/h limit, but I would be relatively surprised if that occurred.
The better question is what MTO wants to do with rural freeways with at-grade intersections like parts of 11 between Gravenhurst and North Bay and the 11/17 in Northern Ontario. These roads have 100 or even 90km/h limits on them right now. Do they go right up to 110? bring the 90 limit parts to 100 and leave the rest? make no changes?
The other good question is some rural Ontario highways which aren't freeways. Rural roads commonly feature 90km/h limits in southwestern and Northern Ontario - should the province investigate bumping at least some provincial roadways to 90km/h? Particularly a highway like Highway 3 around Essex, which is still posted at 80 while being a 4-lane, dual carriageway road..
Why is this an 80km/h road:
While this is 90km/h?
lenaitch
Senior Member
No clue.
Agree. Forgot about those.
One of the initial test areas for the 110 change was Hwy 11 between Emsdale and South River, which has at grade intersections and private entrances. Granted, not a lot, certain not as many as, say, between Barrie and Gravenhurst. I suspect they were encouraged by the results. There were a couple of problematic at-grade intersections; Port Sydney and Powassan, and both have had their cross roadway section severed.
Hwy 3 in the Windsor area is weird. The might justify leaving it at 80 because of volume and/or controlled intersections, or might simply be planning to download it to Essex once the new bridge is built.
If that Longwood Rd. is in the Hamilton area, any municipality has the legal authority to impose pretty much any speed limit it likes. Most if not all county roads in Huron County have a 90 limit.
urbancog
Active Member
Yes. Certainly on the new 12-lane sections of the 401 (from the 410 to James Snow Pkwy) where a quite a few single-occupant drivers want to treat the HOV lanes as an express lane and weave in-out of the HOV lane, passing those of us "only" doing to 120, to achieve their target ~135 km/h.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
407 especially regularly sees normal speed of traffic above 130km/h.
Even there though, it is unusual to see vehicles traveling more than 150km/h due to the extremely heavy penalties involved.
The 90km/h example I gave is in Chatham-Kent. The point was that municipalities often have relatively poorly constructed roads posted at 90km/h, but yet extremely well-built provincial facilities are signed for 80. It's kind of silly.
MTO has been resistant to "reduced speed" zones - but it also oddly hesitant to introduce higher speed limits.
I think my point is that the wider provincial highway network just needs a general speed limit review.
Even there though, it is unusual to see vehicles traveling more than 150km/h due to the extremely heavy penalties involved.
The 90km/h example I gave is in Chatham-Kent. The point was that municipalities often have relatively poorly constructed roads posted at 90km/h, but yet extremely well-built provincial facilities are signed for 80. It's kind of silly.
MTO has been resistant to "reduced speed" zones - but it also oddly hesitant to introduce higher speed limits.
I think my point is that the wider provincial highway network just needs a general speed limit review.
Haljackey
Active Member
Ya that 'everyone will just go 20km/h faster' rule doesn't really apply once you get to 130 sign speed.
You actually feel slow doing the speed limit on most freeways, so that's why people speed in most cases so they're closer to the design speed of the road. For many 400 series stretches, that's 130. So ya upping 100 to 110 saw many drivers simply go from 120 to 130. If you sign at 120 or 130, you won't see many doing 20 over as now you're going faster than the design speed, fuel economy plummets, wear and tear on most cars increases and many don't really feel safe at that speed even with intense concentration.
That 'stop 100' movement aimed for 120, with 130 being a pipe dream. Seems like we might get 120 soon in some places, with 130 becoming a reality in the future.
You actually feel slow doing the speed limit on most freeways, so that's why people speed in most cases so they're closer to the design speed of the road. For many 400 series stretches, that's 130. So ya upping 100 to 110 saw many drivers simply go from 120 to 130. If you sign at 120 or 130, you won't see many doing 20 over as now you're going faster than the design speed, fuel economy plummets, wear and tear on most cars increases and many don't really feel safe at that speed even with intense concentration.
That 'stop 100' movement aimed for 120, with 130 being a pipe dream. Seems like we might get 120 soon in some places, with 130 becoming a reality in the future.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I'm not so sure we will ever see posted 130 but ya never know. Every vehicle, and every driver, seems to have a 'natural' or 'comfort' speed; the speed that feels just kinda right. The vehicle is smooth, quiet, easy to handle and driver driver feels comfortable handling it. The road and weather conditions play a part as well. Back in the day, that was probably closer to 80 (kph). Two lane roads of older designs, bias ply tires, no a/c, kids bouncing around in the back. That's when it took 3-4 hours to get to Muskoka and places like the Sundial Inn in Orillia or Haugens in Port Perry were the sit-down Weber's of the day. It didn't have to be half way, but the trip needed breaking up. Back in the 70s when I was doing law enforcement in Muskoka, clocking somebody at 120 was not common.
On today's major highways, my truck feels 'natural' at about 115; the wife's SUV about 120-125. My bike is about 105-115 (although weather plays a much more prominent role).
Outside of soccer moms running late, commissioned salespersons and the stallions who are overcompensating for what nature shortchanged them on (of which the GTA has far too many), I'm not sure many will find their new natural speed to be in the 130 range. It will be interesting to see what the long range speed surveys show.