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Peepers:

No offense to you but if you want to judge McGuinty on this issue, you might want to consider the amount of flak he received over the GSA/bullying matter. Are you saying Ford has provided equivalent leadership - however imperfect - in his dealings with the community here in Toronto? Food for thought indeed.

PS: Don't play dumb about the stupid wordplay of yours - if you call someone a whore you better own up to it.

AoD
 
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I am of two minds on this one. I was at the first GAY Pride when it began....it was a group of under a thousand having a picnic at the Grange Park, discussing the anti-gay society we lived in and the issues we had to address. I have attended many since then, but very few after that. None as of late. Why? It isn't Pride in being different....with corporate sponsorships from vodkas, banks, unions etc.....it means very little to me anymore...it seems to be pride in EVERYTHING that makes money or represents the most shallow of my community and, quite frankly, other communities as well. There was a time when yelling to the world that you were different, but acceptable, was important, but now PRIDE seems to have become a chance to yell...."Look at me and the rest of us...we are all conformist....we are either muscle guys/gals who work out, we have procreated (somehow), we have an enjoyment of living our lives naked, we are queer high school kids, we are transgendered people who have had the surgery versus those who are just on hormones..... It is now a movement that goes against everything it stood for....it was a chance to say to the heterosexual, white world that there other lives to be treasured, not because they had to be "differently chose or led", but because they were GIVEN and couldn't be changed without deceit. It was about recognizing that others mattered because they couldn't choose to be different, they just WERE. What you do AFTER that is your business. Pride has become not "your" business, but "THE Business". Appalling really, because there were so many who gave up a lot to defend and fight for what so many have today.....and they shit on it....pity! They shit on the older members of their community who endured so much and sacrificed to achieve....is that EVER celebrated by the parade, the committee or the people who show up? NO. Sucks.....yes! Should Rob Ford show up....he said he won't...who cares....he is saying he won't show up to a joke of what it was and was supposed to be, anyway. I would have wanted him to show up when it was "young" and meant something....but not now. Sorry. He doesn't add anything to the city now, why would you want him at the parade? Who cares, the parade is nothing more than a money maker. The Parade doesn't represent anyone I know and I know no one who "represents" themselves at it anymore, anyway. The mayor will not be the mayor in a couple of years....he will be a footnote in our city as he will offer nothing of what he promised....invite the "real" intelligentsia of the city to the parade....they always do and will attend.....you don't host a BBQ for "family" and invite Porky Pig.....do you?.....No....you'd offend Porky and he wouldn't want to be "roasted", anyway. LET.....IT.......GO! (*N.B. - The mayor of "bugtussle" is still reeling from not being able to attend anymore Lingerie Football League games....sad, but true. Points are: 1) Don't invite a belligerent drunken guest you don't want anyway 2) Don't invite anyone who can't publicly speak who is required to do so at your event 3) Don't be so think skinned you can't look at your own community's "mores" before you expect more 4) Don't pretend you were there when it all began and think that the CNE version of being gay is what got all of us where we are today........I'm done ranting, but I could go on....if anyone challenges, haha
 
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Horwath was there last year--swaying on the float to "9 To 5" and stuff. (I recall commenting on how, post-Laytonmania, the ONDP could afford using such virtuously corny parade-float music--kind of establishing themselves as "of the people" more than hi-NRG dance music would have.)

McGuinty at least has been to the parade, and one could argue in his defense (besides the point that, at least in my opinion, there's no need to show to the parade itself every year), he appointed three openly gay MPPs to his cabinets (two of whom are serving now).

I can't help thinking back to the Ian Scott anecdote about David Peterson's so-what response to Scott's concern over whether his not-yet-open sexual orientation would be a barrier to his cabinet job...
 
Wall of text...

Anyways, I almost view the parade these days as a giant gay frat party where people get nekkid.
 
Wall of text...

Anyways, I almost view the parade these days as a giant gay frat party where people get nekkid.

If that were true, I'd make a point of fighting the crowds and I'd be there, I enjoy a few hours of cheap thrills now & again. Alas, it's not.
 
The thing is, not a lot of immigrants are all that willing to throw the gays under the bus. They are minorities themselves in many cases. A 'live and let live' approach is probably the best strategy for most, regardless of what one's personal or cultural biases are.

I think we can generally agree that homophobia and xenophobia both threaten the Canadian ideal of an open and tolerant society. This ideal has never existed in the real world, and we should not pretend (I'm speaking more to Peepers here) that there was ever a Golden Age of tolerance for gays that has been completely eroded by the immigrant hordes. Some immigrants are homophobic. Some Queer people are xenophobic. Within wider society, both prejudices are held by people across the social spectrum. Using homophobia as an excuse for xenophobia (as seems somewhat popular, moreso in parts of Europe than North America), or vice-versa, is by nature damaging to a society that aspires towards mutual tolerance and respect.

Immigrants are not controlled by some giant homophobic hive mind. Each individual, immigrant or not, carries their own ideological baggage, their own prejudices, etc. We confront these prejudices with education, with social reprimand, and, in extreme cases, with the law. Some of the loudest voices for gay rights in this country have come from immigrants. Some immigrants come from countries where gay rights are (increasingly) respected. Some immigrants are - shockingly - gay themselves.
 
If that were true, I'd make a point of fighting the crowds and I'd be there, I enjoy a few hours of cheap thrills now & again. Alas, it's not.
Well, that's basically the only reason I went. :D To watch the spectacle of half-nekkid but costumed party-goers gyrating to bad dance music. Maybe half-nekkid isn't nekkid enough for you? ;)

I don't go anymore though since I've never had any stake in it, and it's gotten pretty boring for me. And one incident that really turned me off was the condo float, which was nothing but a truck with a condo ad. Seriously. Just a truck and a giant ad. No music, no people, nothing. And the whole Palestine-Israel thing gave me pause too. WTF?
 
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I wasn't "lying"!
You said he is avoid Pride now like the plague. Yet he did appear at events last year, and made a very public funding commitment for it after Harper and Ford both tried to unfund it.

You clearly made an intentionally false statement. The definition of "lie" is an intentionally false statement. How then are you not lying?

McGuinty does not want to alienate the growing number of "new Canadians" who come from intolerant cultures where being gay is considered a crime (in some countries punishable by death).
Hang on, are you saying that McGuinty is pandering to bigots? What's the next absurdity - that he eats kittens?
 
All of the complaints about ''nudity", etc. at the parade are overblown. If you actually go to the parade, you don't end up seeing anything much more risque than what you see on tv any night of the week. And like tv, the most dominant images you'll end up seeing are corporate logos. Lots and lots of sponsorships ...
 
I am of two minds on this one. I was at the first GAY Pride when it began....

Don't pretend you were there when it all began and think that the CNE version of being gay is what got all of us where we are today........I'm done ranting, but I could go on....if anyone challenges, haha

I for one appreciate the heartfelt words but...

we all have a tendancy to look back romantically on our own youth and times as being more authentic or meaningful than what's come since. Let's not lose sight, however, that successive generations of gay youth might be finding their very own authentic meaning in Pride, and defining for themselves what it is to be gay in today's world.

I agree that it was tougher in society for gay people in the past and it was far more of an uphill battle. This doesn't mean though that gays today don't have their own challenges to face. It's a little too convenient to sit back, pat one's self on the back and claim that the war has been fought and won but this simply may not be the case for many. Homophobia still exists, so do discrimination and marginalization... and I can guarantee you that despite the commercialism and wider mass appeal of Pride there are still lots of young people experiencing it for the first time and feeling for the first time a sense of pride!
 
I am of two minds on this one. I was at the first GAY Pride when it began....it was a group of under a thousand having a picnic at the Grange Park, discussing the anti-gay society we lived in and the issues we had to address. I have attended many since then, but very few after that. None as of late. Why? It isn't Pride in being different....with corporate sponsorships from vodkas, banks, unions etc.....it means very little to me anymore...

Yes Pride is very corporate but that's a good thing! Some 30 plus years ago people would be boycotting and protesting companies that supported gay rights events. Pride is a money maker, again that's a good thing! Fact Pride attracts thousands tourists from around the world to the city.


but now PRIDE seems to have become a chance to yell...."Look at me and the rest of us...we are all conformist....we are either muscle guys/gals who work out, we have procreated (somehow), we have an enjoyment of living our lives naked,

Probably the only time the majority of LBGT community feels comfortable doing it without fear of being verbally abused or physically assaulted.
 

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