[JWBF]

It seems some people still don't see events as they are, no matter how much evidence is present.

My latest peeve with Ford? Subways! Subways! Subways! The head of Metrolinx is a moron, everything was set to give an RT to people who need it and then feeds Ford a scobby snack. All this is going to do is delay something that is needed, another Ford boondoggle; we have already gone through the process of Ford wanting businesses or another level of government to pay for something that people have excepted to pay through various means.

 

[GenerationW]

My latest peeve with Ford? Subways! Subways! Subways! The head of Metrolinx is a moron, everything was set to give an RT to people who need it and then feeds Ford a scobby snack. All this is going to do is delay something that is needed, another Ford boondoggle; we have already gone through the process of Ford wanting businesses or another level of government to pay for something that people have excepted to pay through various means.

Karen Stintz is the one who started this particular ride. Ford's just trying to get on board so he can say he got Toronto a subway. I think he (and she) will succeed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Karen Stintz is the one who started this particular ride. Ford's just trying to get on board so he can say he got Toronto a subway. I think he (and she) will succeed.

Of course he'll take credit for the whole thing. Chronic liar.

 

[Tewder]

I grew up in the GTA, and now I live and work here; based on what I have observed, maturity is not a common trait among the people who live in these suburbs. As I've said, for the most part they have no idea how or why they live like they do or how they are able to keep living like they do, and have no inclination to educate themselves because they seem to think they already have all the relevant information (hint: they do not because they aren't taught anything of any real value as children and the media does little to educate them) GTA suburbanites often display a callous disregard and lack of understanding or empathy for anyone that is not exactly like them, because they have been encouraged to believe by the prevailing culture that they are just that inherently awesome and anyone that tells them otherwise is just trying to bring them down because of nebulous, poorly explained reasons.

I do not enjoy living surrounded by this amount of raw, unfocused and nonsensical beligerance and if I were not caring for family in the area, I would leave for Quebec or Mars or someplace not populated by such a sea of unrepentant imbeciles.

Is this an example of an enlightened 'downtown' viewpoint? Just checking.

 

[malvern2]

Typical "downtown lefty" view. They forget we all pay the same amount of taxes and deserve the same amount of services. Its that same view that will hopefully keep the Ford and conservative base together to win another term.

 

[Tewder]

... or rather, there are many urban nodes re-developing or springing up throughout the once moribund greater Toronto/Hamilton area. In many cases the urban/suburban divide isn't as black and white as it used to be, and Rob Ford-type pandering to a traditional suburban mentality is failing to resonate with many throughout the region. Let's face it, as Toronto gentrifies it is starting to push out significant elements that always made Toronto so urban to start with.

It's time to get beyond this mentality of circling the wagons around the 416 as some fantasy, last bastion of urban living. It isn't any more, and our greater hope is in building coalitions throughout the area (transit, heritage, the arts etc) and leveraging this as a viable political option to dated suburbanist thinking.

 

[adma]

Yeah, funny how people actually want control over the properties they own, instead of having every single upgrade they make blocked by the likes of adma. For many, if that means voting for Ford, even if they think Ford is a knob, then so be it.

Again, take note of what you're defending. With this in mind, maybe it's *better* that such idiots are blocked.

And if that's the kind of "downtown elitism" you sought to flee; well, good riddance, philistine.

 

[typezed]

I guess it depends on what you mean by Ford Nation. Blind followers, or just people who voted for him?.

Mostly I mean those who voted for him once, who will vote for him again, and who will seek excuses for all his indulgences, missteps and glaring signs that he is unfit for the job. But how many of those who have lived downtown, moved to the suburbs because they were starting families and sought affordability, and who would consider downtown again at some other stage of their life would have voted for Ford initially? Some maybe, but not enough to make him a serious candidate. Of course there isn't monolithic opinion in the suburbs. But I would think that segment of the suburban population of whom you speak go downtown on some occasion, and have some appreciation for urban values - diversity, density, support of cultural institutions, support for workable alternatives to the car as transportation - and would more likely be amongst those who are horrified that a man like Ford can be elected to lead a city like Toronto.

There are many who live in the inner suburbs as if they lived in Leamington. Downtown is a faraway place where they never go, because to their mind it's full of freaks and beggars, reeks of bad smells, and there is nowhere to park. I haven't conducted research, but my guess is that the bulk of Ford Nation in the suburbs consists of older people who worked in the once healthier industrial areas of the former suburbs, who managed to buy a house there and raise a family, who lived decent lives and who identify as residents not of Toronto but of the borough in which they live; their basement-dwelling, drug abusing offspring like the Fords, Prices and Bassos who grow up there and never leave; and deeply conservative immigrants who are here only to make money. Those people are citizens of the city just like any of us, and their needs should be supported, but perhaps in Ford, perhaps in true populist style, their grievances aren't being met so much as exploited and manipulated.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well said typezed. And beyond that point - let's put it this way, if someone from the left was engaging in activities of a similar nature as Ford is, I wouldn't be surprised if even worse scorn was laid on him (not to mention, being utterly unvotable into office in the first place). Case in point, Adam Giambrone's fall from grace.

malvern:

Typical "downtown lefty" view. They forget we all pay the same amount of taxes and deserve the same amount of services.

Beyond the labelling and oversimplification (what does "same amount of services" meant? Are the same services used to the same extent by every resident anywhere in the city? Do recall the row over winnows and yard waste collection) the assertion that everyone pay the same amount of tax is false. Property tax is based on property value and property value differs.

AoD

 

[Tulse]

My latest peeve with Ford? Subways! Subways! Subways!

And this is precisely why I can't take the man seriously as a leader -- one can't promote austerity, smaller government, and lower taxes, while at the same time promote a billion-dollar add-on to transit plans. It's an absurd fantasy that one can have both, and so Ford is either profoundly clueless or just pandering to his base. Either way (or both), he is not a serious politician, and not a leader -- leadership is about making choices, and Ford refuses to choose.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

Well, to put it into perspective, a 10% cut to the land transfer tax equates to $30M/annum (based on last year's figures - and it's been a good year) - which will pay partially for a BD extension to STC in 20 years (at a lowish estimate of 600M on top of the pre-existing funding for the RT conversion).

AoD

 

[Eug]

Mostly I mean those who voted for him once, who will vote for him again, and who will seek excuses for all his indulgences, missteps and glaring signs that he is unfit for the job.

Personally I consider him unfit for the job, as he is ineffective, I don't agree with a lot of his political leanings, and quite frankly, he's a boor. However, if you removed the ineffective part, I'd actually consider voting for the guy. I still probably wouldn't, but I would consider it.

Of course there isn't monolithic opinion in the suburbs.

Yep, of course.

But I would think that segment of the suburban population of whom you speak go downtown on some occasion, and have some appreciation for urban values - diversity, density, support of cultural institutions, support for workable alternatives to the car as transportation - and would more likely be amongst those who are horrified that a man like Ford can be elected to lead a city like Toronto.

Interesting you mix all of that. Support for workable alternatives to the car as transportation? That has nothing to do with supporting diversity and support of cultural institutions, and one of Ford's major talking points is a the subway for Scarborough.

There are many who live in the inner suburbs as if they lived in Leamington. Downtown is a faraway place where they never go, because to their mind it's full of freaks and beggars, reeks of bad smells, and there is nowhere to park. I haven't conducted research, but my guess is that the bulk of Ford Nation in the suburbs consists of older people who worked in the once healthier industrial areas of the former suburbs, who managed to buy a house there and raise a family, who lived decent lives and who identify as residents not of Toronto but of the borough in which they live; their basement-dwelling, drug abusing offspring like the Fords, Prices and Bassos who grow up there and never leave; and deeply conservative immigrants who are here only to make money. Those people are citizens of the city just like any of us, and their needs should be supported, but perhaps in Ford, perhaps in true populist style, their grievances aren't being met so much as exploited and manipulated.

It's strange that you say that suburbia doesn't have one monolithic opinion, but then you turn around to try to label the Ford supporters as almost one monolithic type of population. In fact, I think that is where Ford's opponents underestimated him.

BTW, I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating. I live and work in the 416, but amongst my colleagues and friends, I am generally considered amongst the most leftist of them. However, at UT I'm pretty far right. I find that very amusing, and rather telling. If people here think downtowners mostly share quite leftist views, they're sadly mistaken. Toronto has a pretty centrist view, with good representation of all colours of the political spectrum. The true lefty NDP type leftists are actually the minority.

 

[ahm]

Mostly I mean those who voted for him once, who will vote for him again, and who will seek excuses for all his indulgences, missteps and glaring signs that he is unfit for the job. But how many of those who have lived downtown, moved to the suburbs because they were starting families and sought affordability, and who would consider downtown again at some other stage of their life would have voted for Ford initially? Some maybe, but not enough to make him a serious candidate. Of course there isn't monolithic opinion in the suburbs. But I would think that segment of the suburban population of whom you speak go downtown on some occasion, and have some appreciation for urban values - diversity, density, support of cultural institutions, support for workable alternatives to the car as transportation - and would more likely be amongst those who are horrified that a man like Ford can be elected to lead a city like Toronto.

There are many who live in the inner suburbs as if they lived in Leamington. Downtown is a faraway place where they never go, because to their mind it's full of freaks and beggars, reeks of bad smells, and there is nowhere to park. I haven't conducted research, but my guess is that the bulk of Ford Nation in the suburbs consists of older people who worked in the once healthier industrial areas of the former suburbs, who managed to buy a house there and raise a family, who lived decent lives and who identify as residents not of Toronto but of the borough in which they live; their basement-dwelling, drug abusing offspring like the Fords, Prices and Bassos who grow up there and never leave; and deeply conservative immigrants who are here only to make money. Those people are citizens of the city just like any of us, and their needs should be supported, but perhaps in Ford, perhaps in true populist style, their grievances aren't being met so much as exploited and manipulated.

saturday night i waited for an hour for my friends to meet me at biermarkt on the esplanade. standing outside, i listened in to a group of young professionals - late 20's to late 30's, probably - standing outside to smoke. they discussed the pride parade at one point, that one of them had watched the premier take part in the pride run in the morning on cp24. he went on to explain that he had attended the parade once before in person. his comments were guarded i can only imagine because he was in public downtown, but he mentioned that the bank he works for has a float in the parade and that it's a good thing that they all sponsor it and participate; but that the assless chaps and nakedness was "weird". they went on to discuss attending a soccer game in a park that seems like it was suburban.

i think ford nation's constituents are generally a lot more easy-going and liberal than they are portrayed. but their uneasiness with us latte-sippers is still very prominent. i think we need a lot of good-looking, young, impeccably groomed, high-income-earning, white, gay men to move out to the inner suburbs and start playing soccer with the men, and bringing their too-cute adopted children to hockey practice. if they only see us (the aforementioned perfect gays as well as the rest of us bad-smelling/freaky/begging types) when they visit downtown like tourists, then they are never going to make common causes and listen to other viewpoints. we will literally be on the margins because they have relocated the centre.

and speaking of relocates, i gotta go email someone about moving a standpipe.

 

[Eug]

Good-looking, young, impeccably groomed, high-income-earning, white gay men with too-cute adopted children are quite uncommon anywhere. There are a few, and probably mostly near downtown, but the key word here is "few".

OTOH, well-educated, high-income-earning men and women with moderately liberal views are all over the place, both downtown and in the burbs.

Oh and just to add:

Latte-sippers are common everywhere. Starbucks and Second Cup are all over the place, and are generally indicators of relative wealth, middle class and up. It doesn't matter if that wealth is on Yonge Street downtown, or it's in Richmond Hill... or Oakville for that matter.

 

[ahm]

yeah, i know. i was being a little flippant.