[AlvinofDiaspar]

So the plan is to ask the Feds to commit 400M more to SRT-subway conversion - I am curious about the chances of that succeeding.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

Look at this fool, he doesn't even know the LRT will be grade seperated:

[video=youtube_share;_vCpKUNRBEw]http://youtu.be/_vCpKUNRBEw[/video]

My report card on Rob Ford:

• Rob Ford fails to do his homework.
• His math skills needs improvement.
• He does not know his geography and needs remedial help there.
• Does not take instruction or tutorial help from his peers well
• Does not answer questions as directed to or refuses to answer them or gives answers to other questions

 

[Roy G Biv]

You guys don't get it. People who would vote for Ford don't know what an LRT is either. They are not civically-engaged. They don't care about the actual business of City Hall, only the outcomes (ie. taxes going up or down). Ford is one of them.

 

[ttk77]

I don't think Ford is necessarily lacking in intelligence... he's just never had to use his brain. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and probably grew up having the people around him doing all the hard work for him. He probably doesn't read the reports because he thinks someone else will have read it for him, and if there was anything important in them, someone would have said something to him. He doesn't know the SRT is not on a road because in his experience "streetcars" travel on roads, and if the SRT was somehow different, someone he trusts would have told him. He doesn't know how to do/learn things for himself because he's probably never had to before. I wouldn't doubt it if he believes that the entirety of his job is listening to what people tell him and then making a decision on how things are going to work.

 

[RC8]

The tragic thing is that we will see the subway vote pass due to political pressure. Then how the hell do we fund it? The competent people in council might find a way, but Ford will get credit that he does not deserve in the slightest.

Either the City will act in a very fiscally irresponsible manner to replace one plan with another that just isn't better, or the Feds will have to break all protocols and come save Robby with 400 million (which could happen, since all they care is votes at the end of the day and that saves their brand in Toronto), or we will be here again next year debating this issue once more.

Atrocious and pathetic all around. People in Scarborough would have a new LRT to look forward to in what, a year? If it weren't for Ford and Stintz?

 

[junior43]

The sad thing is, that Ford Nation will continue to believe that an LRT will rip up roads and cause traffic havoc because Rob said so

Unfortunately this is true. But where do you lay the blame for this? I think there's more than enough to go around (with no. 3 being the main culprit.)

1. Metrolinx needs better 'PR' for a lack of a better word. They need to show where the SRT (LRT) would go vs. the subway plan including the stops etc.
2. The press should have also done this. If they inform the public better, they'd be more informed on the two options. The press right now lightly glazes of the specifics and says it's just subways vs. LRT and the $ difference
3. The public has been terribly ignorant in looking into these details themselves, but this is not a new problem, but one that's been going on for years (decades?). These days the general population has to be spoonfed info and either the press or metrolinx should have put together a better info package for the public to properly assess - then again, with them not paying attention in the first place, would additional info actually help?

FYI - I had a friend yesterday, (who lives in Scarborough) with me watching the Ford/Matlow exchange (not a stupid woman, she's mid forties and an exec for a large co.) I started howling when Ford brought up the LRT tearing up roads, and she wondered why. She thought the LRT plan was going to do just that, but she did know all the details of Cory Monteith's death.......

 

[ttk77]

I'm hoping bare minimum that if they approve subways that a motion is passed to return to the LRT decision if funding is not guaranteed from the province and feds by August 2nd. That said, Ford's plan provides for a pathetically small contribution to the project from Toronto, and I don't think it's fair to ask the province and feds to pay so much more. They should demand that Toronto pay for at least half of the increased costs.... none of this $20 million BS.

 

[jje1000]

Unfortunately at this point, the subway vote looks like it may win. This would mean the loss of 300 million in federal funding for the Sheppard line, as well as the loss of future transit into Malvern.

 

[Tulse]

Unfortunately at this point, the subway vote looks like it may win. This would mean the loss of 300 million in federal funding for the Sheppard line, as well as the loss of future transit into Malvern.

So what? Screw those latte-sipping Malvern elites!

 

[ttk77]

Unfortunately at this point, the subway vote looks like it may win. This would mean the loss of 300 million in federal funding for the Sheppard line, as well as the loss of future transit into Malvern.

Didn't Ford announce yesterday evening (even after Flaherty saying that the $300M wasn't necessarily for Sheppard) that the federal money for the BD expansion would have to be new money not already promised to transit expansion in Toronto?

 

[chryx7]

I've been following this thread since the Ford video was released, but I thought I'd take the time to post now after the ridiculous LRT/Subway debate.

What I'm going to say is probably going to sound a little paranoid, maybe even a little crazy to some. I thought I'd post here, because I wanted a bit more time and space to develop my ideas, rather than simply tweeting.

Back in the day, I once met with George Smitherman, and talked to him. I told him I supported Transit City, and he showed me a map of his proposed transit lines, which included the B/D line continuing up to STC/Sheppard, much like we do today. I didn't have much time to talk to him, so I didn't really get to hear why he supported that plan.

And since May, that plan has risen from the dead. I can only wonder if there are unelected developers heavily pushing this plan, who stand to profit heavily from a subway line rather than a LRT because of the properties they own.

I mean, if you are a developer, it totally makes sense that you would rather not have a line run closer to more existing residents, because that would simply improve the value of their property, and hence make them less likely to want to to move or upgrade. Instead, what you DO want are subway lines to nowhere which you an then build new properties, especially condos on.

There are all kinds of people who are voting for the subway that really have no stake in the debate. I can understand Chin Lee or Norm Kelly voting yes, because the subway runs through their ward. However, people in downtown or midtown Wards that should be more than happy to save their voters $500 million or $1 billion in additional taxes are voting to support the subway, including people who should know better like Joe Mihevc. I wonder what got promised to those people.

The other issue at play in the LRT/subway debate, which someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, is whether Metrolinx or the TTC gets to build the lines. Whoever gets to build the lines has a tremendous amount of power in assigning contracts.

I want to be more politically active, but all I'm left thinking is, "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

 

[Eug]

Unfortunately this is true. But where do you lay the blame for this? I think there's more than enough to go around (with no. 3 being the main culprit.)

1. Metrolinx needs better 'PR' for a lack of a better word. They need to show where the SRT (LRT) would go vs. the subway plan including the stops etc.
2. The press should have also done this. If they inform the public better, they'd be more informed on the two options. The press right now lightly glazes of the specifics and says it's just subways vs. LRT and the $ difference
3. The public has been terribly ignorant in looking into these details themselves, but this is not a new problem, but one that's been going on for years (decades?). These days the general population has to be spoonfed info and either the press or metrolinx should have put together a better info package for the public to properly assess - then again, with them not paying attention in the first place, would additional info actually help?

FYI - I had a friend yesterday, (who lives in Scarborough) with me watching the Ford/Matlow exchange (not a stupid woman, she's mid forties and an exec for a large co.) I started howling when Ford brought up the LRT tearing up roads, and she wondered why. She thought the LRT plan was going to do just that, but she did know all the details of Cory Monteith's death.......

? Metrolinx themselves say that Eglinton East will be reduced to 1-lane in each direction for periods during LRT construction, and after it's completed, Eglinton will be reduced permanently to 2 lanes in each direction whereas currently it is 2 + HOV. Metrolinx does seems to believe traffic will flow similarly before and after construction of the LRT, but a lot of Scarberians are skeptical. That skepticism is not unwarranted IMO.

 

[chryx7]

? Metrolinx themselves say that Eglinton East will be reduced to 1-lane in each direction for periods during LRT construction, and after it's completed, Eglinton will be reduced permanently to 2 lanes in each direction whereas currently it is 2 + HOV. Metrolinx does seems to believe traffic will flow similarly before and after construction of the LRT, but a lot of Scarberians are skeptical. That skepticism is not unwarranted IMO.

They need to be assured that the Scarbough LRT will follow the route of the SRT then move through the hydro cut. It's not supposed to take any lanes. Unfortunately, the Scarborough councillors are not doing their job and telling people this.

 

[Eug]

They need to be assured that the Scarbough LRT will follow the route of the SRT then move through the hydro cut. It's not supposed to take any lanes. Unfortunately, the Scarborough councillors are not doing their job and telling people this.

I was not talking about the SRT replacement. I'm talking about the portion of the Eglinton LRT line in Scarborough.

 

[bobbob911]

? Metrolinx themselves say that Eglinton East will be reduced to 1-lane in each direction for periods during LRT construction, and after it's completed, Eglinton will be reduced permanently to 2 lanes in each direction whereas currently it is 2 + HOV. Metrolinx does seems to believe traffic will flow similarly before and after construction of the LRT, but a lot of Scarberians are skeptical. That skepticism is not unwarranted IMO.

Eug, how often do you drive on Eglinton on that stretch? I don't use it to commute but I'm on it several times a week. There is simply an excess of capacity for traffic on that road right now. It's not as good as St. Clair to the south (which feels like it could be an autobahn at times it's so empty) but its hardly congested. The biggest amount of congestion on Eglinton is from the busses, IMO.

2 lanes in each direction, with *no busses*, is going to flow very very smoothly indeed.