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voxpopulicosmicum said:
^^I agree, but at the same time Ford and his supporters have forfeited their rights to any fair treatment, or to argue for logical consistency or against hypocrisy. They don't extend it to others and therefore don't deserve it in return. I'll have a measured and rational discussion with a Denzil M-W, Stintz, Tory, etc. supporter, but Fordites are a breed of subhuman scum whose continued existence is a blight on politics and Toronto in general.
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I don't disagree with the fact that the Fords themselves exaggerate, so you are just fighting fire with fire, as it were. Thing is, when you engage in this sort of tit-for-tat exchange, you cannot then take the moral high ground. You are either factual and respectful, or you're no better than you claim him to be.

There are posters here claiming a high ground they have no right to, considering the levels they stoop to with their insults and exaggerations.
 
OSS 117 said:
Careful. Apparently we aren't allowed to suggest that a segment of the population might be stupid.
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Hey, you're free to do whatever you want. But if you want to suggest that around 380,000 Torontonians are stupid, well... it's a bit ironic, isn't it? It's not an intellectually sound position to take. It's just emotional, knee-jerk posturing.
 
Marko said:
I don't disagree with the fact that the Fords themselves exaggerate, so you are just fighting fire with fire, as it were. Thing is, when you engage in this sort of tit-for-tat exchange, you cannot then take the moral high ground. You are either factual and respectful, or you're no better than you claim him to be.

There are posters here claiming a high ground they have no right to, considering the levels they stoop to with their insults and exaggerations.
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I acknowledge that it is not helpful to insult and denigrate Ford supporters, but I don't care. I'm not Job, Christ or Buddha. I'm just a guy who knew Ford was a piece of shit from the beginning and I expect that those who mistakenly believed otherwise owe me an apology before I should have to engage with them in rational discourse. Instead, some of them double down on their support, and other non-Ford supporting right wingers come to their defense.

Acknowledge and apologize for mistakes. It's not a difficult concept nor an unfair request.
 
somuchwater said:
Hey, you're free to do whatever you want. But if you want to suggest that around 380,000 Torontonians are stupid, well... it's a bit ironic, isn't it? It's not an intellectually sound position to take. It's just emotional, knee-jerk posturing.
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no one is saying 380K people who voted for this moron are stupid. i personally know a psychiatrist with a practice in the St. Clair/Bathurst area, who voted for him--solely based on her anger at the dedicated St Clair streetcar lane. so lots of people who should have known better did vote for him. do you really think people like her are going to vote for him again? exactly. so who is going to be left?

if you subtract all the people who voted for him once, and won't--in a million years--ever do it again what do you get?

you find yourself arriving at the conclusion that in 2014, to the extent that there is a "stupid people bloc", Ford will have a lock on them.

are there enough of them to get him elected? i doubt it.
 
somuchwater said:
Hey, you're free to do whatever you want. But if you want to suggest that around 380,000 Torontonians are stupid, well... it's a bit ironic, isn't it? It's not an intellectually sound position to take. It's just emotional, knee-jerk posturing.
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Okay, here's the thing. First we have to agree on a definition of stupidity. You don't seem to think it exists outside of as an insult to call someone. I just use it as a definition of someone who is either willfully ignorant or unable to process information. You can trade stupid for a less inflammatory word if you want. I suppose it is harsh. But if you want to make it simple and just look at the I.Q. rates, well, as I said before 3.6% of the population of the United States is mentally challenged, so it's probably roughly about the same here. And 75% of the population of the United States has an I.Q. below 110, putting them in the category of average or below average. I don't want to get into the thing of whether or not an I.Q. test is a true indication of intelligence, I'm just using it as an example. If 75% is average or below, that means 25% is above. If 25% is above, it's probably likely that roughly 25% is below, with the 50% in the middle being average.

So, taking out the inflammatory word "stupid" and replacing it with "below average intelligence", yes, I'm pretty comfortable suggesting that at least 20% of the population is of below average intelligence. Now I'm not saying all of that 20-25% voted for Rob Ford, but given the evidence I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a good chunk did.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I don't see how it "reeks of classism".

And "common sense fiscal conservatism" is just a synonym for your typical political populism. In other words, cut taxes, cut services and hope the city doesn't fall apart, while at the same time having a few $Billion in change for subways. Hint: it never works. Ever.
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We are moving ahead with the Scarborough subway and finally giving the taxpayers the world class customer service and infrastructure they deserve. Scarborough has been denied for too long by the downtown power broker elitists of this city. This is only possible because Rob Ford got our fiscal house in order by respecting each and every taxpayer dollar to save over one billion.

Rob Ford is making Toronto the best city in North America with the best customer service and the lowest taxes but people like you go on and try to perpetuate the divisions of class warfare because you just hate an average guy like Rob Ford because a) he doesn't talk like an elitist b) and more importantly he keeps his promises and does a better job as mayor than tax and spend career politicians like David Miller and Shelley Carroll who waste dollar after dollar for a decade and put us billions in debt.

Rob Ford's heart also goes out to the victims of the bus accident in Scarborough this morning. If Council had shown the leadership back in 2010 to back Rob Ford's plan for subways instead of obstructing progress and trying to block this city up with streetcars, this might have all been avoided. People like the unelected premier and Adam Vaughan don't care about the people of Scarborough, never have, never will. Today they have blood on their hands.
 
Forgotten said:
We are moving ahead with the Scarborough subway and finally giving the taxpayers the world class customer service and infrastructure they deserve. Scarborough has been denied for too long by the downtown power broker elitists of this city. This is only possible because Rob Ford got our fiscal house in order by respecting each and every taxpayer dollar to save over one billion.

Rob Ford is making Toronto the best city in North America with the best customer service and the lowest taxes but people like you go on and try to perpetuate the divisions of class warfare because you just hate an average guy like Rob Ford because a) he doesn't talk like an elitist b) and more importantly he keeps his promises and does a better job as mayor than tax and spend career politicians like David Miller and Shelley Carroll who waste dollar after dollar for a decade and put us billions in debt.

Rob Ford's heart also goes out to the victims of the bus accident in Scarborough this morning. If Council had shown the leadership back in 2010 to back Rob Ford's plan for subways instead of obstructing progress and trying to block this city up with streetcars, this might have all been avoided. People like the unelected premier and Adam Vaughan don't care about the people of Scarborough, never have, never will. Today they have blood on their hands.
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"Scarborough has been denied for too long! Scarborough will have it's revenge, and Toronto will pay for it's disrespect! Viva la Scarborough!"
 
Yeah I guess if they had backed his subways plan, the subway would have been built by now to avoid this accident. You comment is disrespectful and out of order.
 
somuchwater:

Hey, you're free to do whatever you want. But if you want to suggest that around 380,000 Torontonians are stupid, well... it's a bit ironic, isn't it? It's not an intellectually sound position to take. It's just emotional, knee-jerk posturing.
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There is bit of double irony to this remark though - considering one's vote for Rob Ford - based on his past performance as a councillor in particular - is likely an emotional, knee-jerk reaction than one based on reason. If one is getting worked up over a less than consequential remark on a discussion forum, reason would suggest an even more visceral reaction to individuals having exercised their franchise along said lines?

AoD
 

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Fotgotten: The Scarborough Subway isn't coming. It's unfunded. Rob Ford wasn't able to show enough leadership to call for proper funding tools.

The subway wasn't anything more than political posturing.
 
One can think that people have voted stupidly without necessarily thinking they are generally stupid. There are plenty of smart people who behave foolishly in some contexts, including politics.
 
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