[nfitz]

What I'm saying is that you keep referencing to Ford and his drinking/driving violation as more evidence that he's unfit to be mayor.

You've missed my point. If it was only the single single criminal conviction for drunk driving in the 1990s I wouldn't mention the issue. But combined with his previous arrest for drunk-driving in the 1980s, and his denial even today that he had been drinking, it's evidence that he has an alcohol problem. And even then it wouldn't be the end of the world if he was up front, and said he'd had a problem, and he'd fixed his ways. But he always seems to try and paint a picture that he doesn't have a problem, and he wasn't really drunk ... etc. It's the classic behaviour of an alcoholic who is in denial of their condition. I'll rephrase my objections ... his alcohol issues make him unfit to hold public office until he deals with them.

Ignoring that a host of others including many politicians have and are doing this.

I'll ask you then ... can you name any current politicians who have gotten into trouble over alcohol issues over 2 different decades? I'm just not thinking of any.

 

[jje1000]

This argument is really getting cylindrical.

 

[Ak2809]

have you read any of the public forums during the past 2+ weeks ?!?!?

the amount of bigotry spewed was pretty convincing to me when some talked about lynching, rounding people up, killing, etc...

Rob Ford didn't create this. Come on. Skipping Pride isn't going to make people spontaneously develop feelings of prejudice.

 

[cdr108]

Where did you read about lynching and rounding up people and killing?

Who was quoted as saying it was open season on gays in Canada, Toronto? What media printed this story that Ford skipping Pride was going to lead to this horrific scenerio. What world are you living in? This is Canada. When was the the last time, hordes of people rounded up people, lynched and killed them?

Are we really having this discussion about how the bigots are going to head out and bash heads?

this wasn't in the actual articles but in the comments section of various national online papers like the SUN, G&M, Toronto Star.
sadly, RF's complete snub of Pride has opened the doors for vile bigots to come out of their closet.

i can understand and appreciate someone not accepting gay marriages and what not, but the tone of some of the comments was truly scary for 21st c and what i thought was progressive liberal country like Canada / Toronto.

 

[tkip]

You've missed my point. If it was only the single single criminal conviction for drunk driving in the 1990s I wouldn't mention the issue. But combined with his previous arrest for drunk-driving in the 1980s, and his denial even today that he had been drinking, it's evidence that he has an alcohol problem. And even then it wouldn't be the end of the world if he was up front, and said he'd had a problem, and he'd fixed his ways. But he always seems to try and paint a picture that he doesn't have a problem, and he wasn't really drunk ... etc. It's the classic behaviour of an alcoholic who is in denial of their condition. I'll rephrase my objections ... his alcohol issues make him unfit to hold public office until he deals with them.

I'll ask you then ... can you name any current politicians who have gotten into trouble over alcohol issues over 3 different decades? I'm just not thinking of any.

No. You don't get off this easily nfitz.

You have no evidence that Ford has a drinking problem. None. Zip. It's also none of your business. Do you know how many functioning alcoholics are out there in society? How many of them are cops, lawyers, nurses and doctors. Do you realize the scale of this?

And yet only Ford matters. And maybe the man just didn't want to talk about this part of his past. Maybe he actually thought the topic would be dropped and they'd ask another question. No. You bringing up his alleged drinking problem was another attempt on your part to demonize the man.

You have a agenda. Vilify Ford.

 

[nfitz]

Rob Ford didn't create this. Come on. Skipping Pride isn't going to make people spontaneously develop feelings of prejudice.

No, but it does empower people.

You don't hear about the anti-gay killings that you heard about in years past. Seems that barely a month didn't go by when there wasn't the report of someone's murder ... trial ... etc. You don't see as much of this these days ...

So we have seen changes in society in the last 20-30 years where anti-gay killings have been much reduced. What caused those changes? And what could undo these changes? I'd be lying if I said I knew what could undo those changes ... but does that mean I shouldn't express concern that this rise of anti-gay prejudice couldn't lead to it?

In the US, the tea party used to make fun of mainstream concerns that their language and imagery would lead to violence ... something they don't mention as much since someone tried to assassinate that representative.

 

[Ak2809]

If you want to blame someone for these anti-gay comments, then blame the media for escalating this issue. The multitude of articles on the subject has done nothing but give these people a venue to vent their views.

Also, I seriously hope any comments about lynchings are just attempts at trolling, but you never know with people.

 

[tkip]

No, but it does empower people.

You don't hear about the anti-gay killings that you heard about in years past. Seems that barely a month didn't go by when there wasn't the report of someone's murder ... trial ... etc. You don't see as much of this these days ...

So we have seen changes in society in the last 20-30 years where anti-gay killings have been much reduced. What caused those changes? And what could undo these changes? I'd be lying if I said I knew what could undo those changes ... but does that mean I shouldn't express concern that this rise of anti-gay prejudice couldn't lead to it?

In the US, the tea party used to make fun of mainstream concerns that their language and imagery would lead to violence ... something they don't mention as much since someone tried to assassinate that representative.

This jump in illogical conclusion that Ford as mayor and skipping Pride will empower and lead to increased discrimination against gays. It's not founded in reason.

It's a wish list from someone that wants something to happen to pin on Ford. That's the reason for drumming up this image of people waking up, and deciding since Ford skipped, they can act out. And I do lay a lot of the blame at the media's feet. Certain media. NOW is famous for their anti-Ford attacks and smear campaigns. That picture of a fake, naked Ford was the last straw for me.

Would NOW have done the same to Miller or any other liberal? No. And talk to nfitz because he's the one that suggests violence is around the corner regarding Ford/Pride.

 

[nfitz]

You have no evidence that Ford has a drinking problem. None. Zip.

Multiple arrests for drunk driving isn't evidence he has a drinking problem? And what about the time he was at the ACC with his wife and got tossed out drunk after he verbally assaulted several people - perhaps the worst part of that is that afterward he had the tenacity to say he wasn't even there and accused the media of slandering him.

I'm amazed you have the gall to say that there is no evidence he has a drinking problem!

 

[nfitz]

Again. This jump in illogical conclusion that Ford as mayor and skipping Pride will empower and lead to increased discrimination against gays. It's not founded in reason. It's a wish list from someone that wants something to happen to pin on Ford. That's the reason for drumming up this image of people waking up, and deciding since Ford skipped, they can act out.

Can you offer an explanation on why we've seen a siginficant drop in gay-related violence in the last 30 years or so. Perhaps if we could isolate the cause of that, we'd be in a better place to judge if the mayor of Canada's most important city being prejudiced against gays could lead to increased discrimination.

And I do lay a lot of the blame at the media's feet. Certain media. NOW is famous for their anti-Ford attacks and smear campaigns.

And yet even the Post and Sun were making anti-Ford comments. Even Sue-Ann Levy spoke out against him. Sue-Ann Levy ... my gosh, it's like hell has frozen over ... last week she managed to write an entire column on City Hall that didn't mention Miller or use the word Socialist even once.

 

[tkip]

Multiple arrests for drunk driving isn't evidence he has a drinking problem? And what about the time he was at the ACC with his wife and got tossed out drunk after he verbally assaulted several people - perhaps the worst part of that is that afterward he had the tenacity to say he wasn't even there and accused the media of slandering him.

I'm amazed you have the gall to say that there is no evidence he has a drinking problem!

Post a link to the articles that show in fact, there were several, proven drinking incidents and that he was in fact, publicly drunk and badgering others unprovoked.

 

[tkip]

Can you offer an explanation on why we've seen a siginficant drop in gay-related violence in the last 30 years or so.

This quote makes no sense. Why would Ford be somehow responsible for anything that happened over the last 30 years?

The drop had to do with a cultural shift in attitudes. Ford just became mayor and you're somehow trying to link any possible increased discrimination out in society to the man. It doesn't make sense. And I don't read the Sun. So anything they said, I wouldn't know since I'm not a reader. Were they bashing based on performance? On his fiscal approach? His attitude since coming to power?

Still doesn't change the tactics used to go after Ford by NOW and others. Lots of personal attacks and comments about his appearance.

 

[cdr108]

Rob Ford didn't create this. Come on. Skipping Pride isn't going to make people spontaneously develop feelings of prejudice.

not suddenly develop feelings of prejudice ... it just let the door open wider for those that had those inclinations to voice them more loudly.

it's partly mob psychology ...
when someone of 'authoritative position' has voiced anti-gay comments and it enables others to believe it's acceptable to voice theirs.

 

[tkip]

And I say that this talk of people suddenly waking up and thinking it's okay to go after gays based on Ford skipping Pride is the stuff of fantasy.

People are reaching on a level that defies imagination. If someone acts on their impulse to mistreat a gay person, that was already within them and their decision to act on it. Criminal to suggest that it should be linked back to Ford. People should be ashamed of themselves for sinking this low and making Ford responsible for others' actions.

If Ford were holding rallies and working up the crowd into a frenzy and calling for violence against gays, then you'd have a real argument.

 

[nfitz]

Post a link to the articles that show in fact, he has several drinking incidents and that he was in fact, publicly drunk and badgering others.

Really? Like we haven't done this before?

Okay. Arrest report from 1999 - newspaper article http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/08/19/rob-fords-no-good-very-bad-week-haunted-by-drug-charge/

The ACC incident was well documented in this very forum when it happened.

----------------------

News from cp24.com

Hitting The Drink

Rob Ford prides himself on his prudent spending as a city councillor, but temperance apparently wasn’t on the agenda during an admittedly drunken evening at a Toronto Maple Leafs game on April 15th.

According to public complaints, Ford was the epitome of obnoxious during a tense battle between the Leafs and rival Senators, spewing obscenities and bullheaded political jargon.

When the complainant asked him to “tone it down a little,†Ford apparently responded, “Who the f*** do you think you are? Are you some kind of right wing Commie bastard?

“Do you want your little wife to go over to Iran and get raped and shot?"

Initially, Ford denied he was even at the game, but soon backtracked and owned up to the less than exemplary behaviour.

“I’m both embarrassed and humiliated by the whole series of events and I sincerely apologize to anyone that I've offended,†he said with a sheepish shrug.

Ford spent what he calls the toughest day of his career issuing apologies instead of his usual political barbs.

“I made a mistake. I'm only human. I don't know what more to say. I sincerely apologize.â€

The complaint, in the form of a 2-and-a-half-page letter, comes from a couple who sat behind Ford. They outline a rare evening out ruined by the councillor’s brutish behaviour.

“I have no idea (why I acted that way),†Ford said. “Just obviously one too many beers. That's the bottom line. I don't know. It's humiliating. It's embarrassing. It's out of character and I can guarantee it will never happen again.

The Integrity Commissioner has not yet decided if a formal investigation into this matter will be launched.



Public Complaint

My wife and I are not “Big City People†but had the opportunity to attend a Toronto Maple Leafs hockey game on Saturday April 15, 2006. As parents of two beautiful young boys aged two and four, and having just experienced our first major move into a 160 year-old “new†home, we had been looking forward to a rare night out such as this one for quite some time.

We spent the better part of the day at the Home Show in Toronto, checked into a hotel, went out for dinner and walked into the Air Canada Centre for 6:30pm, where the Leafs were preparing to take on the Senators.

The A.C.C. was all abuzz as the players and Leaf fans such as myself were clinging to slim hopes that they could squeak into the playoffs and hopefully lineup for yet another first round match up with the Ottawa Senators.

The game started with a bang as the Leafs got out to an early lead. Their momentum and lead over the Senators grew as the game went on. Although my wife and I are far from regulars at such events, I had the honour of attending a number of games at Maple Leaf Gardens throughout my youth.

For me as a young child there was absolutely nothing that could compare to the experience of attending a hockey game.

Reflecting on my youth as this game went on, I couldn’t help but feel as the Leafs entered into the third period, that this was one of the most exciting action packed games that I could ever recall.

With approximately 7-8 minutes remaining on the scoreboard my wife and I (and almost everyone else in our section for that matter) couldn’t help but overhear a rather large gentleman behind us who was becoming extremely loud and obnoxious.

He was dominating a conversation that was primarily political in nature, with two young gentlemen that were sitting immediately behind my wife and I.

For approximately the next 5 minutes the rather large gentleman proceeded to bellow out political jargon and impose his will on almost everyone in our section.

At times he was physically standing up with his arms raised high in the air, shouting politically motivated obscenities. My wife and I were doing our best to avoid eye contact with the gentleman and ignore him altogether.

Unfortunately for us we were caught right in the middle of this gentleman’s boisterous tirade. The following quotes were and remain in our minds:

“My sister was a heroine addict and was shot in the head.â€

“You right wing Communist bastards.â€

“Green Party f***ing rules.â€

The situation became even more uncomfortable for us. I remember quietly saying to my wife that “at least there were no kids around.â€
My wife responded with “look right beside him.â€

Sitting two seats to the right of this gentleman (who was continuing on with his rant) was a young boy that was approximately 7-8 years old, sitting beside his father.

The father had a look of extreme discomfort on his face. As I glanced around and back to my left one row and approximately 5-6 seats over, there was another young boy of approximately the same age.

This gentleman had already ruined our evening and was proceeding to taint the experience of this game for a number of other adults and young children.

The gentleman continued on in an extremely loud way with his belligerence and obscenities to the point where I turned and calmly asked him to “tone it down a little.â€

He responded, again in an extremely loud way with a verbal assault on me personally. “Who the f*** do you think you are? Are you some kind of right wing Commie bastard? Fearing that the situation would escalate further, I did my best to avoid any conversation and/or eye contact with the gentleman.

At one point he shouted the following question at my wife and I, “Do you want your little wife to go over to Iran and get raped and shot?†and continued on with other extremely asinine comments.

The gentleman continued to question me and I did my best to continue to ignore him. He was demanding to know what my political beliefs were and was rudely asking what my profession was.

At one point he questioned “are you a f***ing teacher? And continued with “what the f*** is it that you do?â€

With approximately 2-3 minutes left in what I had completely forgotten was one of the best games I had ever attended, two men in black pants and yellow coats marked “security†finally came and escorted the rather large gentleman down the stairs.

As he stumbled his way down the stairs with security, numerous people in our section began to cheer in favour of escorting him away.

A lady followed closely behind the man as he slowly made his way down the stairs. As a number of the patrons continued to cheer, the lady turned around and pressed her finger to her lips as if to tell us to calm down and raised and lowered her arms as if to tell us to keep it down. Gestures that were dripping with irony.

As the time ticked down on the scoreboard, I turned around and had a conversation with the two young gentlemen who had been sitting behind us the entire game. When asked if they knew the gentleman they explained that “he just appeared with his wife and sat down beside us and started talking politics … here he gave us his card.â€

The two young gentlemen gave me his card and went on to say that they did not wish to keep it.

A rare night out indeed for my wife and I was truly crowned when I read the print on the gentlemen’s business card. It read as follows;

ROB FORD
Councillor
Ward 2, Etobicoke North
Toronto City Hall, 2nd Floor
100 Queen Street West, Suite C40
Toronto, Ontario M5H 2N2

When we returned home, we sifted through the various councillors and their pictures that are posted on the City of Toronto website. We clicked on the name Rob Ford and confirmed that this was indeed the gentleman that was responsible for completely ruining our experience of what was such an entertaining hockey game and for ruining what remained of our evening.

Generally extremely calm by nature, I have been troubled with the following emotion toward Mr. Rob Ford. I am angry with him for the way he spoke to my wife and I on Saturday April 15, 2006.

I am disappointed in him for the way that conducted himself in a public place. I am extremely embarrassed that such an individual is representing the City of Toronto and the people of Ward 2.

Shame on you Mr. Rob Ford for your inexplicable behaviour and for ruining such a rare night out.

Dan & Rebecca Hope.