EMP1729
Active Member
Most politicians are gutless, like rats deserting a sinking ship. Just wait.
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Most politicians are gutless, like rats deserting a sinking ship. Just wait.
Tewder
Senior Member
This deserves to go viral. Post on your facebook pages!
It's heartening to see people get involved so passionately, regardless whether you agree with the point of view or not.
and finally...
Yes!! What a refreshing change this would make for a political scene in Toronto that has been so polarized for too long. Nothing good ever happens at the extremes. If an ongoing stable centrality is the end result of the Ford experiment I am happy and it will have been worth it. Toronto needs stability to go forward and realize its potential.
It's heartening to see people get involved so passionately, regardless whether you agree with the point of view or not.
and finally...
Yes!! What a refreshing change this would make for a political scene in Toronto that has been so polarized for too long. Nothing good ever happens at the extremes. If an ongoing stable centrality is the end result of the Ford experiment I am happy and it will have been worth it. Toronto needs stability to go forward and realize its potential.
Tulse
Senior Member
No one ever said democracy was efficient.
TonyV
Senior Member
Dinner discussions with scads of friends and relatives, of late, have all revolved around these politics, and my tone with respect to the Ford mayoralty has consistently been "this is a conversation that had to happen". There is a point to this administration. Good will come of it, and that doesn't mean it will work out in the Ford Bros' favour of course.
sixrings
Senior Member
One lady counciller, I should have paid closer attention to who, asked the best question of the night. Ill paraphrase because I can remember a word for word qoute. Basically she said "last year during election campaign people were calling Toronto the worst city, a city that needed change. Tonight however everyone is saying that this is the city they love and change is now going to ruin it. How or why is the public reaction completely differrent tonight then election night. The lady just responded with 30 seconds of talking about how all these programs are vital again. She should have just said what the elephant in the room was, there were people for whatever reason that were not happy with Mayor Miller, and wanted a new mayor. That didnt mean that people wanted a mike harris.
Tewder
Senior Member
One word: polarization.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
taal: I think if you'd been down there, your mood might brighten. I'm not putting too much faith in the Ford's ability to listen or change either. But - the Mayor only has one vote on council. And the one thing that does count - really count - are the councillors. And they heard over - and over - and over - and over again that what Rob is doing is definitely not the will of the people.
It is the councillors who will get things done, and who want to get re-elected. Also, all the proceedings have been recorded in word and on tape for anyone who might want to just dismiss them, forget them - or revisit them for proof.
One particularly good male speaker got up and said to the councillors, "Do you really want to base your future political career on that KPMG report?! Really? Because if you do, I can guarantee you, you will not be sitting in those seats again." He was fiery, excellent and got a lot of applause.
Now that the councillors have seen which way the wind is blowing - to the Fordian chopping block with a place for their head on it - I'm more confident that many more than expected will begin to work out of a sense of preservation for themselves and the city. They know now that people are watching them, and that the people know the score.
It is the councillors who will get things done, and who want to get re-elected. Also, all the proceedings have been recorded in word and on tape for anyone who might want to just dismiss them, forget them - or revisit them for proof.
One particularly good male speaker got up and said to the councillors, "Do you really want to base your future political career on that KPMG report?! Really? Because if you do, I can guarantee you, you will not be sitting in those seats again." He was fiery, excellent and got a lot of applause.
Now that the councillors have seen which way the wind is blowing - to the Fordian chopping block with a place for their head on it - I'm more confident that many more than expected will begin to work out of a sense of preservation for themselves and the city. They know now that people are watching them, and that the people know the score.
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Marko
Active Member
Having watched a whole bunch of clips, reading news reports and recaps, I have a hard time seeing things the way some of you are.
Trapani Hybes is not some regular granny - she was an NDP candidate in her riding and well known public speaker. Her rant was amusing to the gallery, bust aside from scoring some cheap shots - can someone explain to me what good it could have possibly done? Did it contribute in any way to to resolving the $774 million deficit?
Looking over the list of scheduled speakers, there did appear to be a good number of local citizens (listed by name only), but a good deal of organizations and unions that were predicted to be there in full force. Being predictable doesn't make them wrong, mind you, but I spent over an hour trying to find one good recommendation from somebody, anybody, and there were none - only opposition.
I live just outside Toronto so I don't have a horse in this race - but as an observer I have to wonder if people think that playing to the gallery and getting applause from people who already support you really counts for much, or anything at all. Those who wore costumes or raised a ruckus, pat yourselves on the back for teamwork, but I 90% of the dog and pony show was a complete waste of everyone's time.
Trapani Hybes is not some regular granny - she was an NDP candidate in her riding and well known public speaker. Her rant was amusing to the gallery, bust aside from scoring some cheap shots - can someone explain to me what good it could have possibly done? Did it contribute in any way to to resolving the $774 million deficit?
Looking over the list of scheduled speakers, there did appear to be a good number of local citizens (listed by name only), but a good deal of organizations and unions that were predicted to be there in full force. Being predictable doesn't make them wrong, mind you, but I spent over an hour trying to find one good recommendation from somebody, anybody, and there were none - only opposition.
I live just outside Toronto so I don't have a horse in this race - but as an observer I have to wonder if people think that playing to the gallery and getting applause from people who already support you really counts for much, or anything at all. Those who wore costumes or raised a ruckus, pat yourselves on the back for teamwork, but I 90% of the dog and pony show was a complete waste of everyone's time.
Armbruster
Active Member
You must have missed the many occasions when citizens said they were willing to have their taxes raised in order to preserve services.
grey
Senior Member
Yeah, how did you miss that? The crowd was fairly unified in that regard. For anyone who didn't use their precious 5, and later 3 minutes to mention it outright, it's really the default measure to avoid cuts.
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tkip
Active Member
I think the point being made is that you can't just keep raising taxes forever to avoid balancing the books. At some point, you have to make cuts somewhere. People down there yesterday didn't seem to want cuts of any kind. At least, the type of cuts that are necessary. It's not realistic. The city can't pay for everything, forever. Doesn't sound like anything was really accomplished yesterday.
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jje1000
Senior Member
Never mind the fact that if Ford had not mangled the 2010 budget, we would have been in a much better situation. Ford is leaving the big-ticket items like labor discussions off the list, and is instead trying to go after small-ticket items like funding for entrepreneurs and BIAs.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
With municipal taxes, sure you can. Property taxes need to go up every year to keep up with the economy. It's an integral part of balancing the books.
Lansdown
Banned
This is correct. The economy changes, production changes, society changes -> taxes change. More wealth should be attended by changes to the tax structure. There is a small something in the realm of human action called "history".
tkip
Active Member
Did it occur to you that others in this city don't share this view? I want good services but I also want bang for buck. We don't get this.
My street hasn't been done in several years. It's falling apart. All these so-called superior services and the city can't fix this street? And I live in a nice neighborhood. This city isn't well managed at all. We all know this. We're not addressing the underlying issue at all. Poor management/delivery of services.
But some people don't want cuts, ever and they want the rest to shoulder all costs till their grave.
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