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grey said:
Definitely need to move towards some Saul Alinsky community organisation in the next 1000 days.
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Given the size of this city, and the number of people potentially impacted by various cuts, that type of community action is virtually certain.
 
grey said:
@NoLore
This debate can be summed up thusly: Deputant: 2+3=5. Exec cmtee mbrs: NO IT DOESNT. YOU DONT KNOW THAT. IT IS 6. #topoli
5 minutes ago via web
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When talking to accountants, 2+3 does not equal 5. It equals "what do you need it to be?"
 
After seeing what is going on today, I too am hopeful that things will turn around. Ford himself is a lost cause but I think that most councillors supporting the Mayor up to this point will change their tune after seeing their constituents expressing opposition to Ford en masse. Are they on deputation 100 yet? No Ford supporters yet. The excuse that they're working is invalid. They could have come after 5pm. After all, nobody works at night -- thus we should cancel the Blue Night service right? .... right?

The key is turning around council against Ford. It shouldn't be too difficult because all that needs to be done is councillors reverting to their relationship with Rob Ford for 10 full years prior. I see a glimmer of hope.
 
MetroMan said:
After seeing what is going on today, I too am hopeful that things will turn around. Ford himself is a lost cause but I think that most councillors supporting the Mayor up to this point will change their tune after seeing their constituents expressing opposition to Ford en masse. Are they on deputation 100 yet? No Ford supporters yet. The excuse that they're working is invalid. They could have come after 5pm. After all, nobody works at night -- thus we should cancel the Blue Night service right? .... right?

The key is turning around council against Ford. It shouldn't be too difficult because all that needs to be done is councillors reverting to their relationship with Rob Ford for 10 full years prior. I see a glimmer of hope.
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Isn't this whole thing a big joke / sham anyway ?

Let's be honest, after listening to a few the deputations some of the folks are rather out there ... though there actually seems to be some positive suggestions and/or constructive criticism given the format of this all isn't that likely to get lost to in the wee hours of the night / the other 30/40% of suggestions that are silly / out there / pointless ?
 
I've been listening to them all day. If you're suggesting that these people are nutcase hippies, my impression is no. Most people have been quite eloquent and presenting good arguments and manyl of them heads or representatives of organizations. They're established people.

Best of all, I've seen people from all over the city. I half expected this to be all downtowners. One of them who lived out west just quipped: "I'm taking the Blue Night bus home -- while we still have it".
 
MetroMan said:
I've been listening to them all day. If you're suggesting that these people are nutcase hippies, my impression is no. Most people have been quite eloquent and presenting good arguments and manyl of them heads or representatives of organizations. They're established people.

Best of all, I've seen people from all over the city. I half expected this to be all downtowners. One of them who lived out west just quipped: "I'm taking the Blue Night bus home -- while we still have it".
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Sorry I meant to say there are a couple of those. The majority like you say come off quite sane and reasonable.

Here's my problem, I'm hearing the same thing over and over and over again ... raise taxes, don't cut. Agree or disagree what is the point of all this ? I'm surprised KMPG didn't site this very public consultation is waste of time and money.

Don't they / you / everyone realise this is such a waste and won't contribute to anything ? This won't sway any counselors, the ones that agree are very aware of the public opinion I'm sure.

Really, the more I listen, the more this all disgust me ... again I think this is all well and good, but what disgusts me is all of this is waste, what impact does anyone thing will come out of this ?


If anyone actually cared to hear the public opinion they'd set up meetings with the specific groups and have private consolations, not this get 3 min, either make fun of Ford, plead your no cuts more tax case, or tell some heart sobbing story ....... :confused:
 
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I think the point is, people are voicing their opinion and simply because one person said X doesn't mean you can't say X also, if that's what is important to you. People shouldn't be expected to have unique concerns when they step up to the mic. Furthermore not everyone has the answer to solve Toronto's problems, and if they did they surely can't divulge that info with any depth in barely 3 minutes. By simply voicing the type of impact these services have, it simply suggests to councilors that there are real impacts to these cuts. They aren't just lines in a budget. The sheer volume of deputations is a good indication of the need for these services. So, it is then up to the councilors to make the tough decisions and find ways to keep these services going. That's what they're paid to do. Anyone can cut and slash. It takes absolutely no effort or thought to do so, but to find solutions takes thought and vision, and it's at a time like this when these things need to come to the forefront.
 
Story of the day, by Miroslav Wagner (thanks to Torontoist):

Once, there was a house called Toronto. It was a big house with a lot of diverse families in it. It was well equipped with all sorts of useful amenities and people enjoyed them. The most controversial thing for the residents was the basement – it was full of these unsightly columns which were ugly and unpopular, but remained because some of the families were convinced that the house could not stand without them. There was the vehicle registration pillar, the land transfer pillar, the property tax pillar, and so on.

One day, a contractor named Rob Ford came and told everyone that he could get rid of all these foundations. Some were sceptical, but he promised them that everything they loved about the house would stay the same. They hired him to do the work.

After he had knocked down the first column, he told people that the house was not stable – it was going to collapse. He assured them it was a pre-existing issue and not his fault. “Don't worry,” he said, “the problem is just that your house is too heavy”.

He went about solving this issue by first selling the fridge and the stove. The people who cooked were all outraged, but those who didn't said “Why should we suffer so you can cook? We prefer to eat at restaurants.”. Then he sold the chairs and tables. More residents started to become outraged, but still there were supporters who said “We can just stand.”.

After all, Contractor Ford had still not eliminated the land transfer pillar and many still felt that it had to go. The residents had now forgotten that he had promised them no major changes and he convinced them that furniture was a small price to pay for all this improvement.

He announced that he wanted to get rid of the television, the shower, the laundry machine, the beds, and the toilet. Now people were starting to get upset. They told him they wanted to keep these things, but Ford answered “This is what you told me to do. We have a four-year contract!”.

The families were now scared of what would be left after four years. “What is even the point of living in a house without these things?” they asked. They decided to organize against the contractor. They hoped desperately that it wasn't too late to save the home they had spent so long building. They also worried that waiting and hiring a new contractor wouldn't be enough – after all, it is much easier to destroy something than it is to rebuild it.

Nevertheless, they were going to try. They didn't know if they could avert catastrophe, but their house meant so much to them, they couldn't just sit around and wait.
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jn_12 said:
I think the point is, people are voicing their opinion and simply because one person said X doesn't mean you can't say X also, if that's what is important to you. People shouldn't be expected to have unique concerns when they step up to the mic. Furthermore not everyone has the answer to solve Toronto's problems, and if they did they surely can't divulge that info with any depth in barely 3 minutes. By simply voicing the type of impact these services have, it simply suggests to councilors that there are real impacts to these cuts. They aren't just lines in a budget. The sheer volume of deputations is a good indication of the need for these services. So, it is then up to the councilors to make the tough decisions and find ways to keep these services going. That's what they're paid to do. Anyone can cut and slash. It takes absolutely no effort or thought to do so, but to find solutions takes thought and vision, and it's at a time like this when these things need to come to the forefront.
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Nicely put, but again this process tonight isn't contributing anything to that.
 
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