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JWBF said:
Emergency generators for at least basic function should be manditory; enforce it with an insurance requirement.
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It is silly that nearly every house in Toronto has a natural gas supply, but no one uses it as a fuel to generate electricity.

If each home had one of these, we'd get past black outs no problem, http://www.homedepot.ca/product/generac-60-kw-natural-gas-liquid-cooled-standby-generator/921052

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dbLVGYW59PY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdbLVGYW59PY
 
Admiral Beez said:
It is silly that nearly every house in Toronto has a natural gas supply, but no one uses it as a fuel to generate electricity.
If each home had one of these, we'd get past black outs no problem, http://www.homedepot.ca/product/generac-60-kw-natural-gas-liquid-cooled-standby-generator/921052
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dbLVGYW59PY&desktop_uri=/watch?v=dbLVGYW59PY
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Considering that:
  • the unit in your link costs $17302.00. Somewhat pricey for what may be random and rare events.
  • same unit ( likely all units) require external installation. Fine if you own a house but not a condo.

Not really that silly sir.
 
guy caballero said:
6 days later over 25,000 "customers" are stil without power from ice storm.
That could be 50,000- 75,000 people still living in an emergency situation.

The SOE would have had more manpower to remove fallen trees and put the tons of wire needed in place.
Common sense should rule but......

This says everything about importance of SOE....
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But but but more manpower wouldn't have done anything!!!! :p
 
Admiral Beez said:
It is silly that nearly every house in Toronto has a natural gas supply, but no one uses it as a fuel to generate electricity.

If each home had one of these, we'd get past black outs no problem, http://www.homedepot.ca/product/generac-60-kw-natural-gas-liquid-cooled-standby-generator/921052

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dbLVGYW59PY&desktop_uri=/watch?v=dbLVGYW59PY
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There are less powerful gennys from the company that will use natural or liquid propane, the lowest is 24 kW.
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
An SOE would have immediately brought all these people together (listed in the .pdf) in an organized fashion and protocol would have been followed - it's there for a reason, and this week is a reason (IMO). As it's been run now it appears to me to be a hodge-podge of people (good people most of them) randomly thrown together with little order in place, the SOE helps establishes clear order. We don't even get regular and timely press conferences for goodness sakes and in between them conflicting news trickles out, all of which varies depending on what TV or radio station you listen to. It's shameful. .
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A SOE would be useful if numerous disciplines need to be co-ordinated. Here, they were all hydro workers.
The downside could be that whole new level of beurocracy would be brought in. These folks would constantly be hounding the front line workers (or front line managers) so that they can update their political masters.
 
TheKingEast said:
But but but more manpower wouldn't have done anything!!!! :p
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Only nobody actually said that ever. But congrats on the poor reading comprehension.

Instead of snarky comments you probably should be able to produce a quote where someone here (for example me) claims that "more manpower wouldn't have helped". As opposed to "I don't think an SOE would have produced more manpower". I'm waiting.
 
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dforthandbview said:
Let's all congratulate Rob Ford for being alert, like this Conservative MP did: https://twitter.com/BrianJean_MP/status/416981134497419264

Brian Jean ‏@BrianJean_MP
Congrats Mayor Rob Ford! Great cbc interview. Lost weight, alert, wrkn hard for Toronto Keep it up Never look back!
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Alert, ha ha. As if Ford's a dementia patient celebrating his 85th birthday: "Oh, he was alert. He blew out the candle on his own. I think he recognized his oldest daughter."
 
Crazy said:
Alert, ha ha. As if Ford's a dementia patient celebrating his 85th birthday: "Oh, he was alert. He blew out the candle on his own. I think he recognized his oldest daughter."
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I like how he only mentions the weight problem . No mention of crack addiction or hanging out with violent gang members.
 
BurlOak said:
A SOE would be useful if numerous disciplines need to be co-ordinated. Here, they were all hydro workers.
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They certainly were needed,

Coordinating hydro crews from Toronto and points beyond and prioritizing areas/buildings, organizing and stocking "warming centres" (of which there were not nearly enough spread around the needed areas), all "boots on the ground" checking on residents in affected areas, tree and limb removal off roads, manned traffic co-ordination at busy intersections with no working signals, communications within departments and regular scheduled media updates throughout the day, coordinating the moving of disabled/elderly/sick and needy people by buses or wheel trans to warming centres, coordinating priority tree cutting and removals and on.... Bureaucracy? Yes. Direction and communication needs to flow many different ways for efficiency.
 
mrtinfoilsocket said:
I like how he only mentions the weight problem . No mention of crack addiction or hanging out with violent gang members.
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Oh, don't be a Negative Nellie! Baby steps! He's alert, he's losing weight -- could be 60-70 pounds before the next election -- and once he becomes mayor again I'm sure he'll start working on the crack smoking, drunk driving, domestic assaulting (alleged!) and hanging out with gangbangers.
 
Crazy said:
Oh, don't be a Negative Nellie! Baby steps! He's alert, he's losing weight -- could be 60-70 pounds before the next election -- and once he becomes mayor again I'm sure he'll start working on the crack smoking, drunk driving, domestic assaulting (alleged!) and hanging out with gangbangers.
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You convinced me! I'm totally voting for him next election! :)
 
Admiral Beez said:
There is something to be said for taking personal responsibilty.

When I lived in Fredericton, where winter power cuts were quite common, many homes had an alternative heat source such as a pellet stove. I recall many homes where a wood or pellet stove was in frequent use, and this was in an urban setting. Pellet stoves are neat, and very efficient and clean burning. Of course they can't be used everywhere, such as condos, so I present pellet stoves not as the definitive solution, but as an example of how people don't surrender their fate to the government, and instead take responsibility.
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I think it's a stretch to call Fredericton "urban." I suppose it is by Maritime standards, but really, you can walk from one end of downtown to the other in 15 minutes, and I don't mean "downtown" in the Toronto sense -- I mean "the area of Fredericton that has any shops whatsoever." Then there's the Prospect Street strip mall area, but yeah. Most people in Fredericton have houses and cars, because it's somewhat affordable to buy a house there, rush hour lasts 20 minutes, parking is cheaper than a bus pass, and services for people who DON'T have houses or cars range from piss-poor (transit) to non-existent (recycling pickup, sidewalk shovelling on major streets).

None of this happens because people in Fredericton are more responsible. It's because Fredericton is a very small city with much cheaper real estate than Toronto and an entrenched suburban lifestyle. If everyone in Toronto somehow acquired a detached house and a private vehicle and used those things the way Frederictonians do we would have a huge number of new problems.

You acknowledged this, but just to underline: storing food in the basement is only an option if you have a basement. Doing things on the back deck is only an option if you have a back deck. Installing new fixtures in your property is only an option if you own property. Fredericton has very little to teach Toronto in this situation.
 
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