News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 8.9K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 40K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 5.1K     0 

Status
Not open for further replies.
My version of "Crazy Town"

[video=youtube;F1Eg1Ft-idI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Eg1Ft-idI&list=UUX-Hig3SImVD5GxzlWb-IQQ&feature=share[/video]
 
And taking from the wealthy (money they worked hard for) and coercing them to pay for social programs they don't believe in, isn't fair either. Conservatives are actually very charitable people; they just prefer to personally decide who they donate their money to. If you believe in socialism, go and give your cell phone or some other personal possession, that you earned, to someone less fortunate than you. Most people are really conservative and they don't even know it. You wouldn't want somebody in a weaker financial situation thinking they're entitled to your personal belongings just because you have nicer stuff than them.

There is so much assumed privilege here, I'm not sure where to start...

Many wealthy people work hard. Many middle class, or working class people work hard. It doesn't prove your assertion that taxation is coercion. Our society requires taxes and social programs to sustain itself. If the wealthy find the oppressive conditions too much to handle, they have the luxury of leaving. (Most don't because they secretly prefer the relatively stable and compassionate society we have, and the fact they don't have to worry about their loved ones being kidnapped and ransomed by guerrillas or narco-gangs).

To your notions of wealth redistribution proving everyone is a closeted conservative, you're just wrong. When my taxes are deducted, I don't feel deep seeded resentment towards those less fortunate who benefit from social assistance. I don't know of any people in my circle of friends or family who feel differently. I would argue that you're not really arguing a mainstream conservative point of view, as many conservatives care about some semblance of social fabric that binds us. The way you equate taxation to coercive theft of the wealthy's hard-work screams Ayn Rand and her dystopic libertarianism.
 
I didn't say all taxes aren't necessary. Where did you get that idea? Social 'assistance' like welfare isn't a must. If anything, such things prevent people from taking control of their lives and having the confidence to be independent and productive. The poor have been exploited by the left for decades. No one is being helped by receiving money they have not earned. That has created a culture of people who are dependent on the government for help. Why not empower oneself and stop relying on others? This type of emotional manipulation has been very effective in garnering support for the the liberals and NDP. 'Those conservatives are such bad guys'. 'They don't want to help you and give you free stuff'...Conservatives are compassionate people -- arguably even more so than many on the left -- we just have different ways of looking at the world. That doesn't make us evil. Now I do agree that some people actually do need some social assistance; handicapped people for instance; the blind, the deaf, etc. Simply having a low income doesn't make one obligated to receive other people's money. That is an illogical notion and an entirely emotional argument. Taking money from those that have more and giving it to those with less isn't fair, just because the former can afford it. That is asinine.

What is weird is this assumption that all conservatives are wealthy. I come from an upper middle class family, but we're far from being rich.

Since you were never poor, you don't know how valuable welfare is.
Some people on welfare have a learned helplessness, yes.
But a lot of people need welfare to survive between one hard situation and getting back on their feet. A lot of people on welfare have mental health challenges. These people are not able to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps'. Just eating and surviving day to day is a challenge.
Welfare here in Canada, and especially in Toronto, is not enough to live on. It is not even enough to pay rent on a market rent apartment.
Would you rather that every one be on the streets instead?
Perhaps they could get bussed to your upper middles class neighbourhood to hang around?
Perhaps you would prefer they be housed in prisons so that they could be slave labour to make any number of cheap goods to compete with Chinese slave labour?

“The True Measure of Any Society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members” – Ghandi
 
Last edited:
If he's there for help they should accept him. it's part of their mission and charter.
(if he's there to condescend to "other addicts" while insisting he isn't one, then yeah, kick his ass)

i'm starting to think he's doing this on purpose. As in: If I show up at seven places acting normal and just poising for pictures and showing support for whatever, the two other times where I show up stoned out of my mind and speaking no known tongue won't make as much of an impact.

I truly believe this is their strategy---for every time Rob is documented as being out of his gourd someplace, they'll have him show up three other places sober. I mean, it's what I would do. Wouldn't you?
 
There is so much assumed privilege here, I'm not sure where to start...

Many wealthy people work hard. Many middle class, or working class people work hard. It doesn't prove your assertion that taxation is coercion. Our society requires taxes and social programs to sustain itself. If the wealthy find the oppressive conditions too much to handle, they have the luxury of leaving. (Most don't because they secretly prefer the relatively stable and compassionate society we have, and the fact they don't have to worry about their loved ones being kidnapped and ransomed by guerrillas or narco-gangs).

To your notions of wealth redistribution proving everyone is a closeted conservative, you're just wrong. When my taxes are deducted, I don't feel deep seeded resentment towards those less fortunate who benefit from social assistance. I don't know of any people in my circle of friends or family who feel differently. I would argue that you're not really arguing a mainstream conservative point of view, as many conservatives care about some semblance of social fabric that binds us. The way you equate taxation to coercive theft of the wealthy's hard-work screams Ayn Rand and her dystopic libertarianism.

Can I like this somehow? Because it says everything that I was too lazy/tired/non-articulate to say.
 
I didn't say all taxes aren't necessary. Where did you get that idea? Social 'assistance' like welfare isn't a must. If anything, such things prevent people from taking control of their lives and having the confidence to be independent and productive. The poor have been exploited by the left for decades. No one is being helped by receiving money they have not earned. That has created a culture of people who are dependent on the government for help. Why not empower oneself and stop relying on others? This type of emotional manipulation has been very effective in garnering support for the the liberals and NDP. 'Those conservatives are such bad guys'. 'They don't want to help you and give you free stuff'...Conservatives are compassionate people -- arguably even more so than many on the left -- we just have different ways of looking at the world. That doesn't make us evil. Now I do agree that some people actually do need some social assistance; handicapped people for instance; the blind, the deaf, etc. Simply having a low income doesn't make one obligated to receive other people's money. That is an illogical notion and an entirely emotional argument. Taking money from those that have more and giving it to those with less isn't fair, just because the former can afford it. That is asinine.

"Yeah, it is. I could care less how nice he is to his family. That's meaningless. What's meaningful is people who can understand and sympathize with people they don't know, and possibly have little in common with. That's one of the problems with conservatives--the inability to think outside their immediate circle."

What does that have to do with what I said? All I mentioned is that he is probably a good person outside of his political career. I don't even like his political views. You're starting a conversation I wasn't even attempting to have. How do you know that conservatives don't think outside their immediate circle? What do you base this assumption on? I make an effort to give whatever change I have in my pockets to homeless people when I'm downtown. My mother, who is extremely conservative, gives money to homeless shelters on an annual basis. Conservatives actually do a lot of charity work. Just because we disagree with socialism, that doesn't mean we don't care about the poor. Where does this kind of black and white thinking come from? That is equivalent to Ford Nation logic.

"That's reasonable enough. I'm just pointing out the confused thinking that leads to things like Mafia bosses and drug-dealing outlaw bikers thinking they're "good people" because they love their dog and spoil their grandkids. Good people put themselves in the shoes of people they don't know and have nothing in common with. It's basic empathy. Treating your family well is no real judge of character at all, in the big picture."

That's a false equivalency. I don't support law breakers just because they love their families. You're all over the place. Tim Hudak, isn't in the mafia or hanging out with bikers. All I insinuated is that he's most likely a good father and husband, and a friendly person. The end. Perhaps Tim Hudak does put himself in the shoes of others, outside of the political realm? He's a politician. He appeals to his base, the same way his opponents do. You should put yourself in his shoes. Sometimes politicians support things they don't even agree with because ultimately, their goal is to remain in power. They do and say what their base wants to hear, whether they believe in whatever that may be.

Wow. I literally think you have no idea of right or wrong. If you're a politician, and you're fighting for things you don't agree with, that you know are wrong, you're a terrible person. Full stop. Go over what you just said, and see if it doesn't sound like the most cynical thing ever. Seriously. If your job involves fighting for things you don't believe in, and that you know are wrong? You need another job.
 
Last edited:
Wow. I literally think you have no idea of right or wrong. If you're a politician, and you're fighting for things you don't agree with, that you know are wrong, you're a terrible person. Full stop. Go over what you just said, and see if it doesn't sound like the most cynical thing ever. Seriously. If your job involves fighting for things you don't believe in, and that you know are wrong? You need another job.

Let me be clear. That depends what wrong(s) one is committing. For instance, Karen Stintz knows that supporting a Scarborough Subway doesn't make any sense, given the cheaper and more practical LRT option. She's intentionally putting her name behind a subway so that she can win the votes of Scarberians in her quest to become mayor. She's purposely going against her own beliefs. That doesn't mean she's a terrible person. She's a flip flopper and an opportunist. You're thinking of some more extreme examples that I haven't entertained.
 
Last edited:
yawn. I think that guy's got to be a troll. "Created a culture of people who are dependent on the government for help" - riiiiight. As if people *want* to have very little agency in their lives. Welfare in Canada is not a golden goose, buddy.

I don't understand why this American-style "takin' our jerbs and tax manies" rhetoric is making its way here. It's sad.
 
Last edited:
No one is being helped by receiving money they have not earned. That has created a culture of people who are dependent on the government for help. Why not empower oneself and stop relying on others?

And yet you give money to homeless people and you say your mother donates to homeless shelters. You're all over the place. Or rather, you aren't; you don't actually mind the poorest and most vulnerable being dependent, but you'd prefer they depend on your whims for their basic survival, rather than have anything predictable, anything to which they might feel entitled.

Everything else you're saying is just ideology and anecdata. You haven't cited proof for any of your assertions: that conservatives donate enough to charity to make up for lost social programs, that people's charitable donations increase as their taxes decrease, that there are suitable jobs available for people currently on welfare (given that a lot of people on welfare are disabled, ill, addicted, children, elderly, or unskilled, that seems unlikely), that rich people work harder than poor people or that reducing or eliminating welfare gives people more initiative. You really sound like a socially maladjusted 15-year-old nerd who thinks he has everything figured out because he just read Atlas Shrugged. Who knows, perhaps that's what you actually are.
 
Last edited:
yawn. I think that guy's got to be a troll. "Created a culture of people who are dependent on the government for help" - riiiiight. As if people *want* to have very little agency in their lives. Welfare in Canada is not a golden goose, buddy.

I don't understand why this American-style "takin' our jerbs and tax manies" rhetoric is making its way here. It's sad.

Maybe the word, "culture" is a bit much. There are definitely a lot of people that milk social services, however. I never said or implied that welfare is a "golden goose."

What is sad is your snotty, anti-American attitude.
 
yawn. I think that guy's got to be a troll. "Created a culture of people who are dependent on the government for help" - riiiiight. As if people *want* to have very little agency in their lives. Welfare in Canada is not a golden goose, buddy.

I don't understand why this American-style "takin' our jerbs and tax manies" rhetoric is making its way here. It's sad.

not to mention going on and on about charities and "giving his spare change to the homeless" :rolleyes:

Conservatives love charities because A) donations are tax write-offs; and B) they get to feel superior to others and like they are saintly. Social service agencies are generally doing more to help people get to the point of independently supporting themselves than charities are.

And as for low-income people who work -- very hard, at least 40 hours a week -- and still don't make enough money to make ends meet (because their hourly rate is too low), YES that is a very big problem. And it's everyone's problem.
 
And yet you give money to homeless people and you say your mother donates to homeless shelters. You're all over the place. Or rather, you aren't; you don't actually mind the poorest and most vulnerable being dependent, but you'd prefer they depend on your whims for their basic survival, rather than have anything predictable, anything to which they might feel entitled.

Everything else you're saying is just ideology and anecdata. You haven't cited proof for any of your assertions: that conservatives donate enough to charity to make up for lost social programs, that people's charitable donations increase as their taxes decrease, that there are suitable jobs available for people currently on welfare (given that a lot of people on welfare are disabled, ill, addicted, children, elderly, or unskilled, that seems unlikely), that rich people work harder than poor people or that reducing or eliminating welfare gives people more initiative. You really sound like a 15-year-old nerd who thinks he has everything figured out because he just read Atlas Shrugged. Who knows, perhaps that's what you actually are.

Being homeless is different than being poor. And what are we talking about when someone is poor? What income level? Less than $25, 000 a year per household? Homeless people have absolutely nothing, and often no family. Many of them are too mentally ill to work either. They deserve the most help. Giving a homeless person some change or buying them a meal isn't going to change their lives, but it shows that others see them as humans and don't simply pretend they don't exist. It is morally wrong to just walk on past them.

"You really sound like a 15-year-old nerd" Ad hominem is my favourite attack mode. You are right though that I haven't proved any of my assertions. I've never read Atlas Shrugged. I only have the mental capacity for scratch and sniff books.
 
on that note...
duty_calls.png

still can get a few hours before gold medal game. suggest y'all do the same. ;)
 
not to mention going on and on about charities and "giving his spare change to the homeless" :rolleyes:

Conservatives love charities because A) donations are tax write-offs; and B) they get to feel superior to others and like they are saintly. Social service agencies are generally doing more to help people get to the point of independently supporting themselves than charities are.

And as for low-income people who work -- very hard, at least 40 hours a week -- and still don't make enough money to make ends meet (because their hourly rate is too low), YES that is a very big problem. And it's everyone's problem.


Yep, conservatives are just all about money. None of them are truly selfless, generous people... What makes you think conservatives think they are superior beings? I'm no better than you or someone with no possessions. We're all equally important. Our validity as humans isn't based on our income or education. How does a conservative donating to charity allow for he/she to feel superior? Liberals give to charity as well. If you think superiority and cozy feelings is what motivates conservatives to be charitable, then that is too bad.
 
Conservatives love charities because A) donations are tax write-offs; and B) they get to feel superior to others and like they are saintly.

You forgot C) they get to decide exactly who's going to get help and what help they're going to get.

Sometimes this is truly sinister (making charitable help contingent on religious conversion, etc.) but often it's just egocentric crap like the Rob Ford Football Foundation. Ford loves football and doesn't love other activities teenagers do, so he donates football equipment while trying to get other school and community activities shut down. Football or nothing, kids.

And then, yeah, he gets to feel saintly. Behold this oldie:

[video=youtube;WwNIh02HAmU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwNIh02HAmU[/video]

Being homeless is different than being poor.

It actually isn't.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top