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Forty Fs said:
And yet you give money to homeless people and you say your mother donates to homeless shelters. You're all over the place. Or rather, you aren't; you don't actually mind the poorest and most vulnerable being dependent, but you'd prefer they depend on your whims for their basic survival, rather than have anything predictable, anything to which they might feel entitled.

Everything else you're saying is just ideology and anecdata. You haven't cited proof for any of your assertions: that conservatives donate enough to charity to make up for lost social programs, that people's charitable donations increase as their taxes decrease, that there are suitable jobs available for people currently on welfare (given that a lot of people on welfare are disabled, ill, addicted, children, elderly, or unskilled, that seems unlikely), that rich people work harder than poor people or that reducing or eliminating welfare gives people more initiative. You really sound like a socially maladjusted 15-year-old nerd who thinks he has everything figured out because he just read Atlas Shrugged. Who knows, perhaps that's what you actually are.
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That quote you're replying to isn't from me, by the way. Just want to make that clear.
 
RippedLikeStinson said:
Maybe the word, "culture" is a bit much. There are definitely a lot of people that milk social services, however. I never said or implied that welfare is a "golden goose."

What is sad is your snotty, anti-American attitude.
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If someone wants to milk social services and live like a king on 10 grand or less a year, they can go right ahead. Not really something I can get indignant about. But since no one actually WANTS to go through life with the bare minimum, it's pretty much a moot point.
 
Kat_YYZ said:
not to mention going on and on about charities and "giving his spare change to the homeless" :rolleyes:

Conservatives love charities because A) donations are tax write-offs; and B) they get to feel superior to others and like they are saintly. Social service agencies are generally doing more to help people get to the point of independently supporting themselves than charities are.

And as for low-income people who work -- very hard, at least 40 hours a week -- and still don't make enough money to make ends meet (because their hourly rate is too low), YES that is a very big problem. And it's everyone's problem.
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That's it. Conservatives like charities over taxes because when they give to charity people get to kiss their boots. When they pay taxes no one knows where the money comes from, so what good is that?
 
I'm not against social services, welfare or health services for the poor. I am against having people live in $1.6million dollar beaches house on taxpayers moneys.
 
jusbokeh said:
I'm not against social services, welfare or health services for the poor. I am against having people live in $1.6million dollar beaches house on taxpayers moneys.
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Ahh yes, and there are soooooo many of those 'people'. Better to disagree with something that was allowed/comletely legal than blame the 'people' who reside there.
 
Last edited:
Is three pages enough to get socialism vs capitalism out of your system? Please bring the conversation back to Ford or take it to another board.
 
I'm wondering whether RLS is the latest incarnation of...well, if so, the mods are monitoring.

Anyway, all this talk's distracting from Ford's wikky-wikky-wikky antics last night.
 
Oh, one thing from the Ukrainian situation: judging from the reports of the President's spread, I can't help thinking how, w/a strong-mayor system and a lock on power, the Fords are the sort who'd assemble some kind of Neverland Ranch affair for themselves, occasionally opening it to the public for Ford Fests and the like. And their supporters as the sort who'd look upon it not as wretched elite excess, but as an honest aspirational goal: "you, too, can have this if you work hard and save your bread rather than blowing it on taxes and municipal gravy"
 
adma said:
I'm wondering whether RLS is the latest incarnation of...well, if so, the mods are monitoring.

Anyway, all this talk's distracting from Ford's wikky-wikky-wikky antics last night.
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I thought the new trolls were coming out of the woodwork when we were discussing the connections Ford has to the mafia, and the mafia's 'civic engagement'.
To distract.
 
euler said:
yawn. I think that guy's got to be a troll. "Created a culture of people who are dependent on the government for help" - riiiiight. As if people *want* to have very little agency in their lives. Welfare in Canada is not a golden goose, buddy.

I don't understand why this American-style "takin' our jerbs and tax manies" rhetoric is making its way here. It's sad.
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Same troll, different handle. Why anyone bothers engaging is mysterious.
 
Forty Fs said:
You forgot C) they get to decide exactly who's going to get help and what help they're going to get.

Sometimes this is truly sinister (making charitable help contingent on religious conversion, etc.) but often it's just egocentric crap like the Rob Ford Football Foundation. Ford loves football and doesn't love other activities teenagers do, so he donates football equipment while trying to get other school and community activities shut down. Football or nothing, kids.

And then, yeah, he gets to feel saintly. Behold this oldie:

[video=youtube;WwNIh02HAmU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwNIh02HAmU[/video]



It actually isn't.
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Looks like if you do not play football (are just a spectator), you will get no charity from Rob.
 
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