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sno man said:
A CTV guy just asked RoFo in the parade if he was drinking last night... because we have footage of you drunk at city hall. [WOW]
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Well, he was definitely at City Hall last night. Sit-in saw him arrive around 6 when the building was starting to close up. The lights were still on in his office when I passed by on my way home from work a little after 11.
 
jml said:
Well, he was definitely at City Hall last night. Sit-in saw him arrive around 6 when the building was starting to close up. The lights were still on in his office when I passed by on my way home from work a little after 11.
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Knew he was there from the sit-in. On account of his general avoidance of City Hall, I wonder if he needed to 'not be at home' for a while...
Also he didn't look all that happy to be in the parade today, at least he wasn't throwing green beads at people like he was the candy canes.
 
It struck me as odd that his lights were on. I cross through Nathan Phillips Square to get home, usually, and I don't think they leave the lights on in any second floor offices if people aren't around. It seemed notable because the other offices were dark. I didn't know whether it was a rare late office night for Rob, a random waste of electricity, or something else. Now wondering if it was "something else".
 
Rob Ford had carte blanche to do whichever drugs he wants and if he gets caught he can just say he was drunk. The media focuses on drinking, most people focus on drinking. Ford is playing their ignorance to his advantage.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Wouldn't there also have to be conspiracy charges? If he had Lisi go out and do his dirty work, that's conspiracy, no? Even if he only said, "Do whatever you think you need to to find that video.." he'd be responsible for the beating etc., as I understand it. He doesn't seem like he did very much solo here.
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That wouldn't be enough. They would have to show that he knew that "whatever you think you need" included violent means.

For example:

Lets say I'm at work, and there's a big deadline on friday. I've got to leave for a business trip, so I tell one of my employees "This has to be done by friday, no matter what. You do whatever you need to to make sure this gets done." Then head out the door.

If my employee beats other members of the team with a stick to get them to work faster, I can't reasonably charged because that person took illegal actions in my absence.

There is no reasonable expectation on my part that he's going to do illegal things. The whole society works because in general we expect each other to obey the law. I expected him to work late, to ask people to help, to cancel or delay other less important projects etc. I defintely don't expect him to beat people because that's just not part of what happens in an office.

Things would be different if there was an earlier situation where I had left and he had beat everyone. In that case there would be a history that I knew about. So I would have a reasonable expectation that it could happen again.

Or if the employee asked "Anything? What's that mean?" and I said "Give em a little extra encouragement, and I'm not talking about bonuses." well now it's starting to become plausible that I intended something like the beatings to occur.

So it's not enough for them to have Ford saying "Do whatever you need to get that video back." They would have to show that he was aware of the actions that Sandro was going to take, that he approved of them and was directly involved in the decision to carry them out.
 
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jml said:
Well, he was definitely at City Hall last night. Sit-in saw him arrive around 6 when the building was starting to close up. The lights were still on in his office when I passed by on my way home from work a little after 11.
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Burning incriminating files?
 
Franks2000inchTV said:
That wouldn't be enough. They would have to show that he knew that "whatever you think you need" included violent means.

For example:

Lets say I'm at work, and there's a big deadline on friday. I've got to leave for a business trip, so I tell one of my employees "This has to be done by friday, no matter what. You do whatever you need to to make sure this gets done." Then head out the door.

If my employee beats other members of the team with a stick to get them to work faster, I can't reasonably charged because that person took illegal actions in my absence.

There is no reasonable expectation on my part that he's going to do illegal things. The whole society works because in general we expect each other to obey the law.

Now if there was an earlier situation where I had left and he had beat everyone, it would be different, because there would be a history that I knew about.

Or if the employee asked "Anything? What's that mean?" and I said "Give em a little extra encouragement, and I'm not talking about bonuses." well now it's starting to become plausible that I intended something like the beatings to occur.

So it's not enough for them to have Ford saying "Do whatever you need to get that video back." They would have to show that he was aware of the actions that Sandro was going to take, that he approved of them and was directly involved in the decision to carry them out.
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This is partly why I think a video isn't enough, unless it's hilariously explicit. They'd need testimony.
 
animatronic said:
If the most serious charge is that Ford "tried to cover up" a video of him smoking crack that was taken by a bunch of drug dealers, it's going to turn him into a martyr.
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I used to think that, but it has since occurred to me that a lot will come down to how the charges are presented. And in this case, given Ford's public doubting of the police and his questioning of expense, the police and crown will be unusually keen to get the public on their side when the charges are announced.

That means they will do everything they can to craft a message likely to garner public support, which means emphasizing seriousness and discrediting Ford. For example:
  • the charges will be announced by a team of senior people in a formal setting
  • they will dwell on how serious the offence is, the potential for jail time, etc.
  • they will craft key messages that will appeal directly to the conservative law and order mindset (e.g., no one is above the law, violation of public trust by elected official, etc.)
  • they will paint Ford as a criminal, with key messages about his illegal drug use, his friendships with criminals and gang members
  • if they can, they will find the pathos (e.g., the poor innocent grandmother who was threatened with violence on the path to getting the video back).
Best of all, there's a really, really good chance they will play the crack video at the press conference!!

There's a reason that Mark Pugash and people like him earn the kind of money they do.
 
Was at the parade earlier - I don't think Rob walking 3.5km in these temperatures in just a suit was the wisest decision

bQEITXh.jpg
 
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