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Superstar
Holy mackeral, what happens when you go to a clothing or shoe store, they just going to bag it in a paper bag
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- Thread starter MetroMan
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taal
Senior Member
Trying not to get too excited about this because I know it'll likely lead no where:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/rob-ford-vows-to-win-jobs-for-toronto-with-lower-tax-rate/
Looks like Ford is actually planning on taxing on Toronto's extremely high commercial tax rate ... yes there is already a plan, a ridiculously slow plan that in the end will still leave Toronto's rage significantly higher then anywhere in the 905.
I don't think adjusting the rate on its own will be sufficient as there's just way too much ground to make up and residential rates really can't go up much (they should) but it would be political suicide.
There needs to be incentive for construction / firms to move into Toronto.
But alas, as I mentioned above, I doubt Ford will come up with anything interesting / enticing enough to enact big changes here in Toronto, changes which are needed.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/rob-ford-vows-to-win-jobs-for-toronto-with-lower-tax-rate/
Looks like Ford is actually planning on taxing on Toronto's extremely high commercial tax rate ... yes there is already a plan, a ridiculously slow plan that in the end will still leave Toronto's rage significantly higher then anywhere in the 905.
I don't think adjusting the rate on its own will be sufficient as there's just way too much ground to make up and residential rates really can't go up much (they should) but it would be political suicide.
There needs to be incentive for construction / firms to move into Toronto.
But alas, as I mentioned above, I doubt Ford will come up with anything interesting / enticing enough to enact big changes here in Toronto, changes which are needed.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Be careful what you wish for, Rob.
You wanted the 5¢ fee removed from plastic bags, you got it! No more 5¢ fee, because...
...there are to be no more plastic bags provided by the store.
See this link from the Globe and Mail.
I see that Costco has a box of plastic bags available, but you have to pay for the whole box.
You wanted the 5¢ fee removed from plastic bags, you got it! No more 5¢ fee, because...
...there are to be no more plastic bags provided by the store.
See this link from the Globe and Mail.
I see that Costco has a box of plastic bags available, but you have to pay for the whole box.
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Peepers
Banned
This is actually a big win for Ford long term. Most voters I suspect are against this ridiculous move and they will blame the Councilors who voted in favour of banning plastic bags not Ford.
It may seem like a little thing but it is not because after January 1st. 2013 - EVERY TIME we go shopping, we will be reminded of the idiocy of the councilors who voted in favour of this motion.
If any of the councilors who voted in favour of the ban were planning on running against Ford in the next election (Vaughan? Carroll?) they have destroyed any chances of winning.
spider
Senior Member
A couple of observations:
If Mr. Shiner had been grocery shopping in the current century and the latter half of the previous century he may have noticed that virtually all of the frozen food sold in supermarkets is packaged in a plastic bag, a bag much more resistant to decay in a land fill than the flimsy bags offered at 5 cents each. He may also have been exposed to the fact that fresh fruit and many bakery goods are also packaged by the shopper in, you guessed it, plastic bags and they are free. Neither of these instances of land fill rape were addressed in todays operetta.
I can think of several retailers with whom I deal from time to time who not only do not offer plastic bags, they only provide paper bags and they are free. Ever been to McDonalds?
If Mr. Shiner had been grocery shopping in the current century and the latter half of the previous century he may have noticed that virtually all of the frozen food sold in supermarkets is packaged in a plastic bag, a bag much more resistant to decay in a land fill than the flimsy bags offered at 5 cents each. He may also have been exposed to the fact that fresh fruit and many bakery goods are also packaged by the shopper in, you guessed it, plastic bags and they are free. Neither of these instances of land fill rape were addressed in todays operetta.
I can think of several retailers with whom I deal from time to time who not only do not offer plastic bags, they only provide paper bags and they are free. Ever been to McDonalds?
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Peepers
Banned
Here are the names of the councilors who voted to ban plastic bags (source Toronto SUN):
LIST OF MORONS:
Yes: 27
Maria Augimeri, Ana Bailão, Michelle Berardinetti, Shelley Carroll, Raymond Cho, Josh Colle, Gary Crawford, Janet Davis, Glenn De Baeremaeker, Sarah Doucette, Paula Fletcher, Mary Fragedakis, Mike Layton, Josh Matlow, Pam McConnell, Mary-Margaret McMahon, Joe Mihevc, Peter Milczyn, Denzil Minnan-Wong, Ron Moeser, James Pasternak, Gord Perks, Anthony Perruzza, Jaye Robinson, David Shiner, Adam Vaughan, Kristyn Wong-Tam
LIST OF MORONS:
Yes: 27
Maria Augimeri, Ana Bailão, Michelle Berardinetti, Shelley Carroll, Raymond Cho, Josh Colle, Gary Crawford, Janet Davis, Glenn De Baeremaeker, Sarah Doucette, Paula Fletcher, Mary Fragedakis, Mike Layton, Josh Matlow, Pam McConnell, Mary-Margaret McMahon, Joe Mihevc, Peter Milczyn, Denzil Minnan-Wong, Ron Moeser, James Pasternak, Gord Perks, Anthony Perruzza, Jaye Robinson, David Shiner, Adam Vaughan, Kristyn Wong-Tam
ttk77
Senior Member
Or, people will just buy a couple fabric bags and forget all about it because of how ridiculously unimportant this is.
Electrify
Senior Member
While I support the ban of plastic bags, the way they have chosen to go about it is not the way to conduct politics. No prior warning in the media, no communication with businesses, no input from residents, etc. Just out of left field, no more shopping bags, period. Can you imagine any number of Ford's ideas (mega mall, NFL stadium) being brought up at a council meeting and being voted on and approved with absolutely no prior discussion?
Being in Richmond Hill and working for a company which has chosen to charge for plastic bags, about 60% of the customers don't have plastic bags with them. Of this group, about 95% of them tell me that they forgot them at home or in the car. So yes, there's going to be a lot of people who will constantly be reminded about how council's left banned plastic bags, thus they will be forced to buy recyclable/reusable bags at $1 each or simply do their shopping outside the city limits.
In a perfect world, people will have changed their habits to switch over to reusable bags by now. In reality, old habits die hard and people will bitch and moan at even the slightest changes in their lifestyles. Hell, people will go as far as deny that there even IS a problem just to continue to feel good about their unsustainable practices (ex: climate change, peak oil). I will continue to be optimistic of a Ford defeat, but I really believe council's left overplayed their hand here.
sarnya
Active Member
Don't try to turn your pro-Ford centric opinions into some sort of political prediction.
Today's vote is a good thing. There are no bags of any type at Costco and Whole Foods only uses paper bags. I don't hear any of their regular customers complaining about the lack of plastic bags.
I don't get why they voted to rescind the bag fee after the ban vote passed though. The majority of retailers will continue to charge for bags as they only have 6 months left to charge for them.
nfitz
Superstar
What? They've banned plastic bags? No public consultation? No advance notice? No study by staff? No chance to make submissions?
Dumbest move ever. Between the green bin, the cat litter, and bags for carrying around used cloth diapers, there are times I buy extra bags at 5¢, just to keep up with the demand. Now I won't use any less bags, and will have to buy them in bulk from Glad or something.
In terms of shopping, not using bags is fine most of the time, except when you do the big shops. Now I'll simply end up throwing away the unreusable paper bags after a $200 shop.
Now, it will be nice to have paper bags at Weston/Loblaws in Toronto, like you get in some other cities ... but perhaps large retailers should be required to have both available, rather than simply banning plastic.
Dumbest move ever. Between the green bin, the cat litter, and bags for carrying around used cloth diapers, there are times I buy extra bags at 5¢, just to keep up with the demand. Now I won't use any less bags, and will have to buy them in bulk from Glad or something.
In terms of shopping, not using bags is fine most of the time, except when you do the big shops. Now I'll simply end up throwing away the unreusable paper bags after a $200 shop.
Now, it will be nice to have paper bags at Weston/Loblaws in Toronto, like you get in some other cities ... but perhaps large retailers should be required to have both available, rather than simply banning plastic.
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Peepers
Banned
Maybe ridiculously unimportant to you but I suspect you are in the minority.
For MOST shoppers this will become an almost daily irritant every time they shop - and yes - those councilors who voted for this lunacy (without any prior consultation!) will pay the price at the next election!
Vaughan and Carroll can forget about running against Ford in the next election.
Electrify
Senior Member
Noticed that Stintz was absent from the vote, which is a freaking brilliant move politically. Depending on public reaction to this, she can run on a platform of bringing back plastic bags if elected mayor if there is a backlash to this policy.
Electrify
Senior Member
Aren't the paper bags at least compatible with the blue bin?
ttk77
Senior Member
People will certainly complain at first, as most people do whenever there's a change, but in the end I think it will be a non issue. Toronto certainly isn't the first district to ban plastic bags. Like when the LCBO stopped providing plastic, there was a big uproar at first, but I rarely hear anyone complain about it now.
Paleo
Active Member
Does this mean the mayor is gone too?
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