[typezed]

Toronto is becoming third-world in our voting patterns. First we choose as our leader a simple-minded bully with a personality cult, and then to overthrow him we fix our hopes on the widow of a political folk-hero. What is wrong with our political culture? Even with Rob Ford proving himself so incompetent, so ignorant, turning everything around him into a clown show, he still has a significant percentage of the population behind him. And why can't we find a moderate leader capable of respecting both the downtown and the suburbs? Why do all the possibilities (Carrol, Vaughan, Thompson) seem so flawed, so lackluster, so incapable of finding the core of passionate believers that Ford and probably Chow bring?

If there is to be a by-election, I'd like to become involved in some way. I've never volunteered politically before, but I'd like to do what I can to ensure that the likes of Rob Ford can never be elected here again. Right now I don't have any idea how I'd become involved. I know that I wouldn't want to support Chow, or anyone with a strong NDP background. I'd like the polarization to diminish.

 

[adma]

When it comes to female downtown Asian NDPers, I actually think Kristyn Wong-Tam is more "saleable" (even in the suburbs!) as Mayor than the coffee-table favouite Olivia Chow--trouble is, she's too fresh on council...

 

[freshcutgrass]

Freshcut, I don't think your are helping your cause here. A huge segment of the poplution feel equally the things you feel about conservative ideology, but their target is the left.

I know this....why else do you think I refer to them as stupid?

That's why I never refer to to it as a "right" & "left" dichotomy. They aren't opposites of each other......there is the conservative-thinking mind, and then there are "normal" thinking people.

 

[prosperegal]

Toronto is becoming third-world in our voting patterns. First we choose as our leader a simple-minded bully with a personality cult, and then to overthrow him we fix our hopes on the widow of a political folk-hero. What is wrong with our political culture? Even with Rob Ford proving himself so incompetent, so ignorant, turning everything around him into a clown show, he still has a significant percentage of the population behind him. And why can't we find a moderate leader capable of respecting both the downtown and the suburbs? Why do all the possibilities (Carrol, Vaughan, Thompson) seem so flawed, so lackluster, so incapable of finding the core of passionate believers that Ford and probably Chow bring?

If there is to be a by-election, I'd like to become involved in some way. I've never volunteered politically before, but I'd like to do what I can to ensure that the likes of Rob Ford can never be elected here again. Right now I don't have any idea how I'd become involved. I know that I wouldn't want to support Chow, or anyone with a strong NDP background. I'd like the polarization to diminish.

That's true. I don't think the city is full of idiots...it's just that the idiots are the ones who vote

 

[jje1000]

The only 100% guaranteed way out of this mess is to not take the route of a byelection and appoint Holyday or a like-minded conservative-moderate to council, allowing them to fullfill a conservative mandate without the childishness. Voters then can decide in 2014 whether or not they want to continue on this path. It is only with this path with which council has full control of the outcome.

Otherwise, there's no other way to win:
- No matter how you view it, Ford will complain about his removal being undemocratic
- He will continue to argue up the "I-only-used-city-letterhead-to-help-poor-black-people" route
- If you take the route of a byelection, Ford will be first out of the gate, and will use the "lefties made us waste $7 million dollars over $3 thousand" angle along with whatever poison Kouvalis has up is sleeve.
- If Chow is running, Ford will declare that the "lefties are out there to return us to a tax-and-spend habit"
- Shelley Caroll is too well associated with Miller, for better or for worse
- Voters may not like Ford, but put someone seen as too far to the left, and they may very reluctantly vote for his again.
- Tory is a Ford-killer, but he has his weaknesses and has no indication that he's interested in running
- If you reappoint Ford, he will declare it a victory for himself and think that the other councillors have capitulated
- If you appoint a liberal or centrist, Ford will complain about his mandate being hijacked

Of course, all of this is moot if he wins his appeal, with which he'll then claim to have survived a leftist plot. He will also learn absolutely nothing from this, which is a shame.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I don't believe that many people even know who is left, right or centre. An awful lot of people grab a few sound-bytes, maybe talk a bit with like minded friends & family, read a few headlines then vote with their gut and then there are others who are very passionate based on their belief system along with evidence and place an informed vote. Although running for an election is one hell of a lot of work and involves drop dead hours, a successful candidate has to follow a basic formula to win. Be media-friendly, have strong talking points and a half dozen good sound-bytes to repeat ad nauseam, be a Mayor for "all Toronto", have 'fire in the belly', a strong team behind them and be a good public speaker & debater. I think Chow is a really strong candidate if (when) she enters the fray as she has name recognition and is a seasoned politician who could do so much good in Toronto, though some would object. I'd consider Adam Vaughan too (despite having a few problems with him) but with the massive amount of development & other projects happening in his Ward I'd rather him sit it out until 2018, same for Wong-Tam (my favorate), she needs more time on Council plus she also has her hands full right now in Ward 27 and we really need her right now. And yes, I recognize that I listed three bike riding, left-wing pinkos for the Mayor's chair.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

The only 100% guaranteed way out of this mess is to not take the route of a byelection and appoint Holyday or a like-minded conservative-moderate to council, allowing them to fullfill a conservative mandate without the childishness. Voters then can decide in 2014 whether or not they want to continue on this path. It is only with this path with which council has full control of the outcome.

Otherwise, there's no other way to win:
- No matter how you view it, Ford will complain about his removal being undemocratic
- He will continue to argue up the "I-only-used-city-letterhead-to-help-poor-black-people" route
- If you take the route of a byelection, Ford will be first out of the gate, and will use the "lefties made us waste $7 million dollars over $3 thousand" angle along with whatever poison Kouvalis has up is sleeve.
- If Chow is running, Ford will declare that the "lefties are out there to return us to a tax-and-spend habit"
- Shelley Caroll is too well associated with Miller, for better or for worse
- Voters may not like Ford, but put someone seen as too far to the left, and they may very reluctantly vote for his again.
- Tory is a Ford-killer, but he has his weaknesses and has no indication that he's interested in running
- If you reappoint Ford, he will declare it a victory for himself and think that the other councillors have capitulated
- If you appoint a liberal or centrist, Ford will complain about his mandate being hijacked

Of course, all of this is moot if he wins his appeal, with which he'll then claim to have survived a leftist plot. He will also learn absolutely nothing from this, which is a shame.

If Ford does all you say in a by-election, and one or all of the other candidates don't shove his many, many transgressions and quotes down his throat, they deserve to lose.

"Where's the money for your subway? Point me to ONE DOLLAR pledged by ONE PRIVATE COMPANY and I'll stop saying you're useless at building subways."

"You had people KICKED OFF A CITY BUS so your kids didn't have to wait a HALF-HOUR in the rain! They're HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PLAYERS! I'm sure they're tough enough to stand in the rain for 30 minutes -- they went to the Metro Bowl final! What about the grandmother and pregnant lady on that bus? They were KICKED OFF IN THE RAIN!"

The talking points would be about his privileges -- Deco getting work done when the Mayor asked for it. Is that fair? Meetings between Deco clients and the heads of departments when they POLLUTE OUR WATER SUPPLY. A frickin' HS football coach on his staff at City Hall -- office budgets are sure a heckuvalot smaller than a FULL-TIME SALARY (whether that's true or not.)

I truly think the angst around here is pretty high for no good reason. I agree with Marcus Gee -- he'll get his by-election, and he'll lose it.

 

[jamincan]

What is voter turnout for a by-election compared to a normal election?

 

[Danielinthecity]

I don't believe that many people even know who is left, right or centre. An awful lot of people grab a few sound-bytes, maybe talk a bit with like minded friends & family, read a few headlines then vote with their gut...

You really hit the nail on the head here...most simply have no clue nor the inclination to learn about the real truths behind the issues, and the right love that...they can exploit their ignorance, whether rich or poor!

During the last election I did some door-to-door...I still recall folks in Rosedale complaining how difficult it was for them to 'just get bye' and how they can't afford to pay more taxes as they were already taxed to death...and how ford understood their pain...

...one lady actually used the term 'middle class' to describe herself and her neighbors while complaining to us how she had to rent another home (just down the street from their multi-million dollar home) which was getting guttted/renovated and that it was difficult for themselves and the nanny...she tied this to the issue of bicycle lanes in that the lanes have added yet another inconvenience to her already tough life...I'm not making this shit up! And this was someone I previously would've thought would be informed (and intelligent).

...mind boggling!

If you've never volunteered during an election, I encourage you to do so...it's an eye-opener (but depressing at the same time).

 

[Johnny Au]

I like the idea of the instant runoff system. It would be difficult to vote strategically or to split votes. The byelection would be a good time to test this system out. Chow would get my vote, since despite her faults, she is knowledgeable in urban affairs and can connect with people very well.

 

[christiesplits]

What is voter turnout for a by-election compared to a normal election?

At the provincial and federal level, by-election turnout is usually 30-40% lower than a general election. If Toronto were to follow that trend the by-election turnout would be around 32-37%, compared to the 52% turnout in 2010. Typically "voter enthusiasm" polling is a heavy indicator of by-election outcomes, ie. who really wants to go vote on e-day.

If I recall back in the Kitchener-Waterloo provincial by-election, it looked like a three-way race in the final day, but the eventual NDP winner had a clear lead in hard support and enthusiasm.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Rob Ford is already "campaigning" for re-election. The other "candidates" better start their "campaign" now.

What are the rules for a re-election campaign?

 

[Lenser]

The candidates aren't yet announced. The game is not yet in play. Ford can start campaigning anytime he wants; everyone expects it of him. But the fact that he's going for it now does not preclude the possibility that he'll be soundly trumped at the polls. It's not how long you campaign, it's how well you campaign. Ford may still have friends but he has also a tainted record that dogs him like a ball and chain.

 

[spider]

RRR,
I expected better of you.

"Where's the money for your subway? Point me to ONE DOLLAR pledged by ONE PRIVATE COMPANY and I'll stop saying you're useless at building subways."

The money is under the same bed as the $700,000,000. David Miller committed the City to for streetcars

"You had people KICKED OFF A CITY BUS so your kids didn't have to wait a HALF-HOUR in the rain! They're HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PLAYERS! I'm sure they're tough enough to stand in the rain for 30 minutes -- they went to the Metro Bowl final! What about the grandmother and pregnant lady on that bus? They were KICKED OFF IN THE RAIN!"

Rob Ford did not order a bus for his team. The police ordered a bus and the TTC specified which bus, you know this to be the case.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

spider:

The money is under the same bed as the $700,000,000. David Miller committed the City to for streetcars

First, the streetcar order isn't exactly a secret - are you saying Rob Ford didn't do his homework beforehand? Second, as I recall Rob Ford insisted that subways won't cost the public a cent. So then what exactly does the 700M has anything to do with subways?

Rob Ford did not order a bus for his team. The police ordered a bus and the TTC specified which bus, you know this to be the case.

And some facts has since come to light that challenged various assertions by Rob Ford (e.g. time elapsed between the request to his worship calling the TTC up) - are you saying the facts are so watertight in this case to begin with? Furthermore, I am curious as to other examples of TPS requesting a bus under similar circumstances.

AoD