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MetroMan said:
Ruby's team is very confident that Hackland's ruling will not be overturned. Rob Ford will not be Mayor by lunch time Friday.
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Well, yeah, but Ruby's gonna say that at this point anyways, isn't he? I can't imagine him saying: "We don't stand a chance, nope." In the least, it'd be bad business. He's gotta be confident.
 
Miscreant said:
Well, yeah, but Ruby's gonna say that at this point anyways, isn't he? I can't imagine him saying: "We don't stand a chance, nope." In the least, it'd be bad business. He's gotta be confident.
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while true, we're talking about a prominent lawyer who knows his stuff.


Lenser said:
I think we'll see the decision go against Ford. What I'm more curious about now is precisely what follows.
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hopefully we DON'T have a by-election and Holyday is nominated as temp mayor until 2014.
 
I'm also hoping we'll bypass an election. Not sure if Holyday would be my number one pick but I'd be cool with it. Anything but a FordBro.
 
Miscreant said:
Well, yeah, but Ruby's gonna say that at this point anyways, isn't he? I can't imagine him saying: "We don't stand a chance, nope." In the least, it'd be bad business. He's gotta be confident.
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I don't think he'd want to be over confident if he thought there was much of a chance he'd lose. Ford's lawyer didn't present any new evidence or make an argument that he didn't make to Justice Hackland. An appeal is not a new trial, it's an opportunity to show that errors were made in the original trial. Lenczner did not show that.

As for what comes after, my measurement of the temperature on council is that they will appoint an interim Mayor internally rather than go to an election that few Torontonians want. If Holyday can't guarantee that he won't run in 2014, he will not get the nod from the left. I'm starting to see other emerge as real possibilities like John Parker. While a Conservative, he's very fair with differing opinions and he has no ambitions to run for Mayor.
 
MetroMan said:
I don't think he'd want to be over confident if he thought there was much of a chance he'd lose. Ford's lawyer didn't present any new evidence or make an argument that he didn't make to Justice Hackland. An appeal is not a new trial, it's an opportunity to show that errors were made in the original trial. Lenczner did not show that.
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You are correct. No new evidence was presented or new arguments. An appeal is not a re-trial. What was different was Fords Lawyers were making the same arguments to a panel of three new judges.

They argued the law on four separate points which means that this three judge panel will be deciding on four separate questions of law. If they are less than unanimous on just one of these four questions of law Rob Ford keeps his job. You could say that the odd's are in Ford's favour.

If the appeal judges uphold the Hackland decision I suspect Rob Ford will not be out of office for long. This afternoon - the most left-member of council - former communist party of Canada President - Paula Fletcher - said that the "fair" thing to do would be to re-appoint Rob Ford (as reported by Don Peat). If they decide against a bye-election (which Ford would almost certainly win) I suspect that the consensus will be that the only fair thing to do is uphold the will of the electorate and re-appoint Ford. Anything else would be undemocratic.
 
Peepers said:
You are correct. No new evidence was presented or new arguments. An appeal is not a re-trial. What was different was Fords Lawyers were making the same arguments to a panel of three new judges.

They argued the law on four separate points which means that this three judge panel will be deciding on four separate questions of law. If they are less than unanimous on just one of these four questions of law Rob Ford keeps his job. You could say that the odd's are in Ford's favour.

If the appeal judges uphold the Hackland decision I suspect Rob Ford will not be out of office for long. This afternoon - the most left-member of council - former communist party of Canada President - Paula Fletcher - said that the "fair" thing to do would be to re-appoint Rob Ford (as reported by Don Peat). If they decide against a bye-election (which Ford would almost certainly win) I suspect that the consensus will be that the only fair thing to do is uphold the will of the electorate and re-appoint Ford. Anything else would be undemocratic.
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Peepers, I don't even know if I should entertain your argument at all given that you contradict yourself when you concede that an appeal isn't a retrial but then go on to argue that what Lenczner is pitching is a retrial to three new judges. Then you get wrong that the decision needs to be unanimous. It does not. There are 3 judges on the panel for a reason. Majority rule wins.
 
MetroMan said:
Peepers, I don't even know if I should entertain your argument at all given that you contradict yourself when you concede that an appeal isn't a retrial but then go on to argue that what Lenczner is pitching is a retrial to three new judges. Then you get wrong that the decision needs to be unanimous. It does not. There are 3 judges on the panel for a reason. Majority rule wins.
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You're right that unanimous is not the correct term. I should have said that if on any of these four decisions two of the three judges do not agree with Hackland's interpretation Rob Ford keeps his job. As for pitching a retrial to three new judges that is not what Ford Lawyers did. They argued interpretation of the law as opposed to presenting evidence.
 
Reading between the lines, it appears that Paula Fletcher is merely saying that the council has to seriously consider reappointing Rob Ford as mayor; however, she appears to be more in favour of a byelection, (evidently she feels it's a more democratic process, more accountable to the electorate, than appointing a caretaker mayor for the duration of Ford's term - she said as much to CBC radio).

Nor do I agree with Peepers' contention that a byelection would necessarily see Ford sweeping back into power. I think all the high weirdness swirling around city hall the last year or so means that practically anything can happen at any time.
 
There is also the compliance audit hanging over Ford's head. If he is found to have broken yet another law I doubt Council could possibly reappoint him and even his densest supporters might realise that he is not the best person to represent their views.
 
What does "building a transportation city" even mean?

Toronto Star: Toronto press releases will no longer echo Mayor Rob Ford

Mayor Rob Ford lost control of city council, then lost control of his future. Now he has even lost control of the paragraph at the end of the city’s press releases.

Councillor Josh Matlow complained in a November letter to the city manager that the distinctly Ford-like paragraph is “inappropriately ideological†and insufficiently “factual.†Matlow asked for a new paragraph that is “reflective of our city as a whole and our residents’ common values.â€

He got his wish. The communications department is changing the paragraph to “highlight current factual information and to more properly reflect the city's key priorities — such as the city's role as Host City for the 2015 Pan Am Games, for example,†spokesperson Wynna Brown said Wednesday.

* * *

Matlow (Ward 22, St. Paul’s), a centrist who pleads regularly for less partisanship at city hall and who has become highly critical of Ford, said the paragraph should be “evergreen no matter who the mayor of the day might be.â€

* * *

THE FULL MILLER-ERA PARAGRAPH:

Toronto is Canada’s largest city and sixth largest government, and home to a diverse population of about 2.6 million people. It is the economic engine of Canada and one of the greenest and most creative cities in North America. Toronto has won numerous awards for quality, innovation and efficiency in delivering public services. Toronto’s government is dedicated to prosperity, opportunity and liveability for all its residents. For information about non-emergency City services and programs, Toronto residents, businesses and visitors can dial 311, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

THE FULL FORD-ERA PARAGRAPH:

Toronto is Canada’s largest city and sixth largest government, and home to a diverse population of about 2.7 million people. Toronto’s government is dedicated to delivering customer service excellence, creating a transparent and accountable government, reducing the size and cost of government and building a transportation city. For information on non-emergency City services and programs, Toronto residents, businesses and visitors can dial 311, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
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Peepers said:
You are correct. No new evidence was presented or new arguments. An appeal is not a re-trial. What was different was Fords Lawyers were making the same arguments to a panel of three new judges.

They argued the law on four separate points which means that this three judge panel will be deciding on four separate questions of law. If they are less than unanimous on just one of these four questions of law Rob Ford keeps his job. You could say that the odd's are in Ford's favour.

If the appeal judges uphold the Hackland decision I suspect Rob Ford will not be out of office for long. This afternoon - the most left-member of council - former communist party of Canada President - Paula Fletcher - said that the "fair" thing to do would be to re-appoint Rob Ford (as reported by Don Peat). If they decide against a bye-election (which Ford would almost certainly win) I suspect that the consensus will be that the only fair thing to do is uphold the will of the electorate and re-appoint Ford. Anything else would be undemocratic.
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What's the weather like in the world you live in? Must be sunny!

BTW "bye-election" - now that's ironic :)
 
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