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]You've brought up indiscretions of Fords that are at least 5+ years old - except for flipping some lady the bird last year whic i really don't care about.
The Mayor of Toronto gave the finger to 6-year old doesn't bother you? It bothered our police department which asked him to get a driver.

Honest question for everyone, what has Ford actually done to damage this city?
Reputationally? Do you read foreign newspapers? I really don't expect to see articles in British newspapers making fun of our mayor.

Only thing off the top of my head is he delayed transit city for 6 months, maybe a year.
A delay of the Sheppard East opening from 2014 to 2020 is 6 months or a year?

What about the TTC service cuts? Both in routes, and the increase in off-peak loading standards, making buses less frequent and more overcrowded?

And then there are all the lies he has told. His theft of city services for his business. His using city staff to run his football foundation and his football coaching. The man is a thief. He's corrupt. And he's a liar. He is an international embarrassment.

Were he a city employee, rather than mayor, he would have been fired years ago.
 
I have to say, I voted for Ford and this has worked for me, My taxes are hardly increasing, and as I drive to work from downtown to Markham, have little need for city services beyond police and fire departments, utilities and sewage, garbage collection and road and park maintenance.

Not everyone needs a city to provide housing, transit, health, arts, sports, parades, events, etc, etc...

I've often wondered something.

I believe I would be correct in assuming the average Ford supporter voted for him and approves of the job he's doing because he's "cutting the waste at city hall" and saving taxpayers money. Right? It seems to me like he was elected by a selfish voter base as demonstrated above.

Honestly, how much money does the average citizen of Toronto have in their bank account today because Rob Ford is mayor?

If you own several cars, he's saved you some significant money by scrapping the vehicle registration fee. Then again, if you can afford the gas, insurance, maintenance and space to park said vehicles, you're probably not hurting for money.

Cutting the 5 cent bag fee has maybe saved people $1 or $2 at the most.

Meanwhile, user fees at community centres have risen along with the price of transit. Leisure swimming used to be free on Sundays, now it's $2/adult and $1/child. So if two adults took their one child, once a month to go swimming, they're now spending $60/year. A metropass has increased by $7.50/month or $90/year. I realize Rob Ford didn't personally raise the price of the TTC, but that's a lot of extra money transit users are spending.

If you own one vehicle and take the TTC a couple times a week, you can't have saved that much money.

Unless you're someone like Admiral Beez, who admittedly has no life or interest in participating in society/culture, I don't think you're any richer today than you would be if anyone else were mayor.
 
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js97 -

1 - Agree, we shouldn't raise them for the sake of raising them. But the city is strapped for cash and it's not like the feds or province are sitting on any dough. If we want better transit and infrastructure, we can whine and cry we need more money, or actually do something about it.

2 - I was thinking 407 style - except for selling it. Just throwing the muni tax out there as another option. Another idea on the tax note though, we could do like some US cities do. I was in Baltimore last december, and they had a 20% parking tax at hotels. Bad for tourism, but just another angle on taxes to think about

2a - I disagree on the VRT. I own a car, but I also work from home, so I rarely drive, it's a grocery fetcher on weekends and for going to cottages, etc. (I've had it for 4+ years and it has 25K km on it) It's unfair I'd pay the same rate as someone who drives to work every day using the Gardiner. And when I do go downtown to work, I use the GO. Also, the VRT would only be on TO car owners, when it's the 905ers who use the DVP, Gardiner, and other surface routes like Kingston road to commute.
3 - Oh I know it's a dream.
 
nfitz - ok, just spent an hour trying to reply with quotes and botched that up totally so going to try and reply to your points.

One finger salute - no, i don't care. The kid's probably seen it a dozen times already. Oh, you're also mixing his driving mistakes. The police wanted to get him a driver for reading while driving. And yes that one was bad and he should get a driver. To review: Finger OK, Reading bad.

Reputationally - I don't care what Britain thinks of us. They know mayors aren't permanent number one, and if a company in Britain was looking at investing money here, Ford would not be the deal breaker - unless they sold streetcars ;) Any business who wants to come here is more concerned about the 5 million wallets in this city, they don't care who the mayor is.

Sheppard E - The city's broke, cuts had to be made somewhere. The crosstown is still going forward, same for union-pearson link and several others. So one had to be delayed.

TTC service cuts - Last time I checked, all Ford did was cut the TTC budget. The TTC decided what got cut. So blame them for that puppy.

Ok, honestly forgot about those, and there's no defense for expediting the front of his business being cleaned up. But calling him corrupt, a liar and a thief are over the top. He's certainly no saint, but he's not that far gone - if he was he'd be in federal politics.......

If he were a unionized city employee, he would have had his hand slapped and maybe suspended for month at best for his infractions.

Ford's gotten the budget under control, and the same with the unions, and that's why i voted for him. And now that he's got the city's finances going in the right direction, some of these things that were cut can be brought back in time.

I figured he'd be a Chris farley stand-in as mayor, but I beleived he'd get the finances under control, and he's done that. I knew everything else would be a crapshoot. As for watching everyone who hates him go apoplectic over his antics? Well, to me, (I can't resist) that's just gravy..........

He was the least bad choice at the time - if an election were held tomorrow with the same candidates, I'd still vote for him.
 
ok, just spent an hour trying to reply with quotes and botched that up totally so going to try and reply to your points.
Yeah, I've been there.

One finger salute - no, i don't care. The kid's probably seen it a dozen times already. Oh, you're also mixing his driving mistakes. The police wanted to get him a driver for reading while driving. And yes that one was bad and he should get a driver. To review: Finger OK, Reading bad.
Okay, I'll somewhat give you that one. Though he does have a long history of being verbally abusive. And then there was his bizarre complaint to the TTC after a driver called him out for not stopping for a streetcar with the bizarre excuse that the doors weren't open yet (which makes no sense, as the operator doesn't open the doors if it looks like a driver is going to blow past and put put passengers lives at risk). As is typical, Ford doesn't understand basic rules.

Sheppard E - The city's broke, cuts had to be made somewhere.
The city is broke? No. Operational budget is balanced. Tax increases have been similar to or lower than 905 for years. Taxes are lower than 905. Debt is much, much lower than many big cities. And besides ... the money that was saved was 100% provincial money.

TTC service cuts - Last time I checked, all Ford did was cut the TTC budget. The TTC decided what got cut. So blame them for that puppy.
Really?

But calling him corrupt, a liar and a thief are over the top.
They are no way near over the top. His corruption has been extensive and well documented. Than man is a pathological liar and this has been documented many times. This is pretty polite. The unpolite version is that the man is a psychotic abusive emotionally-undeveloped prejudiced liar of questionable intellect.

If he were a unionized city employee, he would have had his hand slapped and maybe suspended for month at best for his infractions.
Your joking right? For skipping off work every afternoon? No, people get fired for that. Look at how many the TTC let go ... some of their firings scare me.

Ford's gotten the budget under control
Look at the net operating budget. It's rate of increase might have slowed a little, but it's nothing spectacular.
net-budget-web.png
. See http://metronews.ca/voices/ford-for-toronto/519262/debunking-ford-nations-favourite-budget-chart/

and the same with the unions, and that's why i voted for him.
The unions? Did you see the settlement the police got? It was obscene. And then he gave the TTC essential service status, restricting the city's power to impose a contract - as a result the TTC staff got quite a reasonable pay increase. And yes, he did come up with a decent settlement with city staff - however they settled pretty quickly, which makes me wonder how much extra he put on the table. Even Miller fought that union harder.

And now that he's got the city's finances going in the right direction, some of these things that were cut can be brought back in time.
And yet as I pointed out, there's been little change to the city's finances. Taxes continue to increase at similar rates to before. The TTC cuts were totally unnecessary as they were only done to try and limit the extra 5¢ a year fare increase. In the end the savings from the cuts were about the operating surplus TTC generated because of unexpected savings and ridership increases. It's no secret that the mayor's office were pushing for the cuts to service.

He was the least bad choice at the time - if an election were held tomorrow with the same candidates, I'd still vote for him.
And this I don't get. He's been almost totally ineffective. He's broken most of his campaign promises. He's even given in to most of the unions. And he's failed on the fiscal issues. Where's the $2-billion in savings he promised?
 
Seriously, is there a link to how-to's on posting the quote stuff? I tried twice and butchered it.

I'm not denying he isn't a buffoon. Ford basically has no filter. For good and bad he says whatever at the time. Not the best feature in a politician, but it's a reason his base follows him, he appears human and truthful. Not the smartest human, but at least he appears to be 'trying' to be truthful. Some of them, yes, are intentional lies, some of them, he just talks himself into.

Debt? Good if ours is lowest, I'd still prefer it lower, or I'd like to find out if the city can still afford the same amount of debt if the interest rate goes up 2%. I'd prefer the city when looking to take on more debt, also evaluates if they can still afford it at an interest rate that is 2-3% higher than currently. Rates are stupidly low now, but it won't last forever.

I liked the link on budgetary stuff, but have to look into more, for a proper answer. I just remember every year Miller going to McGuinty to beg for money, when that didn't work, he'd start threatening services to get his way and his budget passed. Yes, Ford's first budgets were very contentious. But this year, nothing. No begging to the province, no high stakes financial chicken. It passed with little argument - and that hasn't happened in at least a decade.

I have no issue with Ford's football coaching. For 10-12 weeks a year he leaves early 2 or 3 times a week. Miller had his own pet projects and would be gone a lot as well. Would I prefer he quit coaching? Yes, It's a distraction from real work, but I find it hard to fault him for helping inner city youth. He could certainly find better ways to go about it, but it's not a big issue with me. Besides, if he's so terrible, wouldn't you prefer he runs off and let the adults get the real work done.

I won't go down the union road, that another argument in itself. I'll just say I don't think the police or any other union should be getting any raises right now.

Neither of us have any proof of what contract the city staff got. It was shortly after Ford was elected, and I feel they didn't want to strike against Ford - and especially after the bad taste the garbage strike had left in many people's memory. Don't forget, the main reason Ford got elected was Miller. When he bent over for the garbage workers, he realized he was toast and announced he was leaving. There was such a backlash at the time, if you could have taught a monkey to say 'I'll fight the unions and privatize garbage collection, he would have got elected. Hmmmmmm, maybe someone taught an albino gorilla.

The 2 billion in savings would have been great. But I'd still rather have nickels and dimes saved versus Smitherman or Pants in charge. Smithers was Mcguinty lite, and Pants was Miller lite. I was leaning to Sarah Thompson last time, but then she ducked out. Hopefully, there'll be a center-right (john tory-ish) candidate next time around. And seriously, who's the last politician who actually kept all their promises? No politician is perfect. Miller wasn't perfect, and Ford certainly isn't either.

If you think Ford's corrupt, what is McGuinty? Just curious. Only difference I see is McGuinty was a better liar.
 
...
I'm not denying he isn't a buffoon. Ford basically has no filter. For good and bad he says whatever at the time. Not the best feature in a politician, but it's a reason his base follows him, he appears human and truthful. Not the smartest human, but at least he appears to be 'trying' to be truthful. Some of them, yes, are intentional lies, some of them, he just talks himself into.

....

No filter? He just avoids journalists' scrums. He avoids publishing his agenda. By doing that he tries to keep quiet and secret. Only his entourage knows for sure.
 
Seriously, is there a link to how-to's on posting the quote stuff? I tried twice and butchered it.
I find that frequent use of the preview post button helps, as at least then there is saved version to go back to.

... he appears human and truthful.
He appears truthful? He's been caught in so many lies. During his campaign he talked of having to leave university a couple of courses short of graduating. When the truth came out, he dropped out in first year. That's truthful? That's falsifying a resume, and it's an automatic firing offence almost anywhere. And the lies have kept coming. Not political bending of the truth - but simple, mindless, unnecessary lies.

Debt? Good if ours is lowest, I'd still prefer it lower, or I'd like to find out if the city can still afford the same amount of debt if the interest rate goes up 2%. I'd prefer the city when looking to take on more debt, also evaluates if they can still afford it at an interest rate that is 2-3% higher than currently. Rates are stupidly low now, but it won't last forever.
What's Toronto's debt? $4-billion? So a 2% interest increase is less than $100 million? That's a rounding error on the city's budget. Your point was the city is broke. However we have relatively low debt levels (Moody's says Toronto has a low debt level), and low taxes compared to surrounding municipalities. Not only is Toronto not broke, the city's finances are quite healthy. You've fallen for those on council who choose to state otherwise in order to scare votes.

I just remember every year Miller going to McGuinty to beg for money, when that didn't work, he'd start threatening services to get his way and his budget passed.
As opposed to Rob Ford's announcing there's a fictional 700-million shortfall so as to justify him breaking his no service cut promise? And hasn't Ford also gone to the province every year to beg for money? He's asked for the province to fund subways, and at the same time made it very clear that he won't. And the annual city request to the province for funding of various projects looks about the same as it always loooks.

No begging to the province, no high stakes financial chicken. It passed with little argument - and that hasn't happened in at least a decade.
Hang on - there was so much drama this year the budget chief quit in protest ... that hasn't happened in a decade. The right-wing didn't even try their usual stuff, and quickly agreed to increase taxes. And no begging to the province? The city has asked for long-term transit funding. Long-term and sustainable funding for affordable housing. And has presented the province with a long shopping list of funding needed for capital projects. Just like they do every year.

I have no issue with Ford's football coaching. For 10-12 weeks a year he leaves early 2 or 3 times a week.
And if he, himself, did only this 2-3 time a week for 10-12 weeks, I'd be fine with it. But he himself said that it's “Every day from 3 to 6 o’clock for September-October, and depending on how far the team goes in the playoffs, it could go to the end of November.” And even that would be find. However, taking office staff with him, including city vehicles, every day, is not right. And if the staff were helping him work at the same time, perhaps. But they are helping him coach football! It even came out that there was a person in his office who had pretty much been hired to help with the football program, and this is what they spent most of their time on. That's corruption. And that's stealing from the tax payers. How can Rob Ford have so little respect for the taxpayers?

Miller had his own pet projects and would be gone a lot as well.
He was gone from time-to-time on city business. He certainly didn't take afternoons off on a regular basis to indulge a hobby.

It was shortly after Ford was elected, and I feel they didn't want to strike against Ford - and especially after the bad taste the garbage strike had left in many people's memory.
Not sure why you call it a garbage strike - there were 24,000 workers on strike, and only a small fraction were dealing with garbage. There was no garbage collection for about 6 weeks - it's hard to imagine this impacted most residents much - personally I simply stacked the newsprint in the basement, and put the rest in the blue bin. I had a second green bin that got pressed into action, and had an extra garbage bag of stuff in the basement by the end, that I'd never got around to taking to one of the nearby facilities. Now, it if had gone on much longer, I'd have had to have started taking a lot of stuff to the collection facility ... but it was hardly a big deal.

Don't forget, the main reason Ford got elected was Miller. When he bent over for the garbage workers, he realized he was toast and announced he was leaving.
Your missing something here ... Miller fought the city workers, and that's what caused him the issues. If he'd have simply rolled over before the strike, without forcing the concessions on sick days, this would have been a non-issue.

Ford (or whoever he had negotiating) knows this, and that's why they didn't push a strike with the city union, and the police union. They know the voters don't really care about the cost, are are much more upset about the strike. Sure, the strike cost Miller ... but surely it wasn't rolling over!

There was such a backlash at the time, if you could have taught a monkey to say 'I'll fight the unions and privatize garbage collection, he would have got elected.
And yet Miller fought the unions and won concessions. It's paradoxical. Ford meanwhile rolls over completely on the police union and the TTC union (despite their protests about the "essential service", it's more a "twist my rubber arm" thing, as they know full well that they'll get healthier settlements over the long-run from the arbiter than negotiation.

The 2 billion in savings would have been great. But I'd still rather have nickels and dimes saved versus Smitherman or Pants in charge. Smithers was Mcguinty lite, and Pants was Miller lite.
Miller was a fantastic mayor. The man was intelligent and found ways to improve the city. Something Ford doesn't even have the mental skill to comprehend - let alone replicate.

If you think Ford's corrupt, what is McGuinty? Just curious. Only difference I see is McGuinty was a better liar.
Not sure what McGuinty has to do with it. He's not mayor. And I certainly haven't ever heard any suggestion he's corrupt. The man seems quite pleasant, family-oriented nice guy. Even Hudak has nice things to say about him. He's certainly done a lot to improve Toronto and the GTA with funding for projects like Waterfront, and the $10+ billion of transit infrastructure. Sure, there's been some scandals, but I've seen no suggestion that ORNGE reached the minister's office, let alone the Premiers ... that's not to say they shouldn't have spotted the corruption earlier. And the power plant issue is hardly corruption ... it's simply politics ... Hudak had also promised to cancel them, so I have a hard time understanding how they are so high and might about it after them. It was a huge mistake ... they should have built the things and to hell with the NIMBYs. They had no problem dropping a similar plant near my house in Toronto without the incessant whining of the over-entitled suburban elite.

The paradox is, that in the mind of many, all Ford has going with him is his fiscal responsibility. And yet he's responsible for little of what was achieved - Del Grande should get the credit - before he quit in protest because Ford was not supporting him. And yet when you start digging into the numbers, Ford has actually accomplished very little in trimming the budget - other than perhaps delaying capital spending by a year, and some relatively small savings on contracting out garbage collection. Nothing like the huge savings Miller succeeded by eliminating the trucking of waste to Michigan by buying a fully-licensed private landfill in Ontario with lots of capacity (a very rare commodity!).
 
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I've often wondered something.
I believe I would be correct in assuming the average Ford supporter voted for him and approves of the job he's doing because he's "cutting the waste at city hall" and saving taxpayers money. Right? It seems to me like he was elected by a selfish voter base as demonstrated above.

Honestly, how much money does the average citizen of Toronto have in their bank account today because Rob Ford is mayor?

If you own several cars, he's saved you some significant money by scrapping the vehicle registration fee. Then again, if you can afford the gas, insurance, maintenance and space to park said vehicles, you're probably not hurting for money.

Cutting the 5 cent bag fee has maybe saved people $1 or $2 at the most.

Meanwhile, user fees at community centres have risen along with the price of transit. Leisure swimming used to be free on Sundays, now it's $2/adult and $1/child. So if two adults took their one child, once a month to go swimming, they're now spending $60/year. A metropass has increased by $7.50/month or $90/year. I realize Rob Ford didn't personally raise the price of the TTC, but that's a lot of extra money transit users are spending.

If you own one vehicle and take the TTC a couple times a week, you can't

Unless you're someone like Admiral Beez, who admittedly has no life or interest in participating in society/culture, I don't think you're any richer today than you would be if anyone else were mayor.


This: Pocketbook issues is akin to seeing the trees but not the forest. You can shave whatever percentage of a percent off of people's taxes by getting rid of the guy who goes about city hall watering the plants, but not addressing larger issues like transportation and social issues will cost us billions down the road in lost potential and costs. This is the area that Ford has not adequately answered, and it does no good to our city. Of course cutting waste and outsourcing will help a bit, but not nearly enough.
 
Actually, on that front - let's put it all into perspective using an early example - the amount of proposed budget cut - $20M; the amount of liability the city got exposed to because he decided to throw a wretch into the established transit projects - $40M. Does that sound like sound fiscal management to you?

AoD
 
Seriously, is there a link to how-to's on posting the quote stuff? I tried twice and butchered it.

I click reply with quote and then copy and paste the entire quote numerous times. In each spot I remove the unwanted texted and am left with several "quote" boxes to which I can reply.

Some people never learn. Ford continues to solicit lobbyists and contacts for his foundation. He just doesn't get it. http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/57...bbyists-to-donate-to-his-football-foundation/

The reason things do not stick to Ford is that others faults are an order of magnitude worse. Ford collects money for charity while Wynne collects money for her party. http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...5000aplate_fundraiser_for_kathleen_wynne.html. Ford skips council meeting to assist youth. Trudeau skips Parliament to make money for himself. http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/1...s-while-earning-thousands-on-speakers-circuit.
 
Most of Ford's ideas are very close to crazy, but he does get people moving. Definitely not in a graceful way, but he does get things moving at times.

WWII "got people moving". 9/11 "got people moving". Get my drift?
 
The reason things do not stick to Ford is that others faults are an order of magnitude worse.
It seems interesting that your have no Conservative examples. Like the federal minister who stole the G20 funding money to build sidewalks in his own town (that had nothing to do with the G20). Or the sitting MP who admitted taking cash in brown paper bags from an Arms lobbyist, who Prime Minister Harper turned a blind eye to and wouldn't investigate.

Though you have to do better than a run-of-the-mill political fundraising dinner. Heck, even Ford's done similar to erase campaign debt.
 
BurlOak;708959 The reason things do not stick to Ford is that others faults are an order of magnitude worse. Ford collects money for charity while Wynne collects money for her party. [url said:
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2013/02/27/energy_sector_executives_hosting_5000aplate_fundraiser_for_kathleen_wynne.html[/url]. Ford skips council meeting to assist youth. Trudeau skips Parliament to make money for himself. http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/1...s-while-earning-thousands-on-speakers-circuit.

This is an excellent point. Rob Ford's so-called transgressions are so insignificant compared to corruption at other levels of government. Raising a few thousands for a children-at-risk charity is nothing compared to the $Billion boondoggles that the Liberals at Queen's Park have been involved with.

For example - as noted in the above Toronto Star article - a group of Power Industry executives are getting together to host a $5,000 a plate fundraising dinner for Kathleen Wynne. Now I know that many will say "whats the big deal"...."they all do it" but here is the problem. The Liberal Party has a history with the Power Industry and these $5,000 a plate fundraisers.

From the official Queens Park Hansard of 2004: http://pfrpo.ca/articles.php?command=print&ID=18502

Today I received information indicating that Mr. Mike Crawley, the president of AIM PowerGen, sent an e-mail in the midst of the bid process to various parties encouraging their attendance at the energy minister’s fundraiser at $5,000 a pop. Premier, I’m sending copies of this material over to you and asking that you have an independent third party review the contract award process to ensure that it was absolutely above-board.

Subsequent to organizing this fundraiser - Mike Crawley's AIM PowerGen would be awarded a very lucrative $475 Million Green Energy "FIT" contract. And who is Mike Crawley? At the time he was awarded this lucrative contract (essentially a licence to print money) he was the president of the Liberal Party of Ontario. Where is he today? He is the president of the Federal Liberal Party!

This is what Howard Hampton had to say about Mike Crawley inside the legislature:

What is he going to get for his dedicated work as a Liberal hack? He’s getting a $475-million guaranteed hydro contract at 8 cents a kilowatt hour, wholesale price. People wonder why their hydro bill is going to go up. Let me tell you, your hydro bill is going to go up because the McGuinty government is going to be busy shoveling money into the back pocket of this Liberal hack.

If you go and look even at his own CV, it says that his other experience in life besides counting paperclips for the Liberal Party is some sales at the Bank of Commerce. Has this guy ever worked for an electricity company? No. Does he know how to put the plug-in in the wall? I doubt it. Has he got any experience working for an electricity company? No. He is a Liberal hack and he’s going to get a $475-million contract, guaranteed at 8 cents a kilowatt hour. That’s why the hydro bill is going to go through the roof.

How many of you reading this were aware the the president of the Ontario Liberal Party was awarded a $475 Million energy contract despite having no experience in the industry? This is just an example of one lousy deal. McGuinty awarded $Billion's in lucrative contracts to his cronies and yet our media is obsessing over the fact that Rob Ford used City letterhead to solicit donations for a children charity?
 
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