Torontovibe
Senior Member
The song and rap is actually pretty good.
[video=youtube_share;QXo15yhPoQQ]http://youtu.be/QXo15yhPoQQ[/video]
[video=youtube_share;QXo15yhPoQQ]http://youtu.be/QXo15yhPoQQ[/video]
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- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Kat_YYZ
Senior Member
^^ it's pretty good 
he did another version in June with a more interesting video.
He should do an update with new samples from the confession.
he did another version in June with a more interesting video. He should do an update with new samples from the confession.
zang
Senior Member
Regarding the idea that Ford Nation is here for good:
As vocal as they are and as sure as they are that Ford will win another election (if he makes it that far), Ford Nation is not a movement here to stay.
Rob Ford’s election was a perfect storm.
Exhibit A. Anger towards David Miller, and all he stood for.
Ford won the election on the tails of disdain for Miller, we all know that. Miller had a remarkably high approval rating for almost 6 years until a lose-lose contract negotiation situation fell into his lap. He gambled (ironically) on the side of the "taxpayers", refusing to capitulate to some pretty hefty demands. If he'd given in, he'd have been labelled a union sympathizer, so he took a chance on allowing a strike. A few weeks in and the public was irate about a lack of garbage pickup, his political fate had been sealed. He didn’t run for re-election, denying many the catharsis and satisfaction of voting against him. These angry people were left needing to vote in a Anti-Miller, just out of spite.
This was the spark that lit Ford Nation, but it's not what fueled the inferno.
Exhibit B. A poor economy makes the pendulum swing.
Politics tends to act like a pendulum. When we vote one political direction, odds are the future will see a swing back to the other side. This is most evident in the US presidential elections, where there’s no centrist third party (well, none close to having any chance). There are a few exceptions, but it seems increasingly rare that an incumbent on any one political side is followed by a new president on the same side of the spectrum. The seat of the president seems in a regular pattern of democrat-republican over and over and over.
But here in our parliamentary federal and provincial elections, we have a third, centrist party. That means that when we don’t “need” the extremes of the spectrum—such as in times of economic boom—we don’t vote for them. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that in more stable economic times, we tend to vote the Liberal party into power, and the Conservatives and NDP pick up more votes during harder times. The last federal election is pretty good proof of that, with the Liberals taking third place.
Our mayoral election shares more in common with the US presidential elections than it does our own party-based parliamentary elections. A lack of parties makes it less likely that anyone will be easily defined as centrist. It’s much easier for people to define in a black and white fashion, without intently following what they say and do. Though Miller was closer to the centre than the far left, he “appeared” as a far-leftist and depicted by many as downright communist, leaving the pendulum to easily swing to the right.
Exhibit C. There was no right wing competition against Rob Ford.
Pantalone was NDP, and Smitherman and Rossi were Liberals, despite Rossi’s piss-poor attempt to court the right wing vote with talk of outsourcing. Tory was as much as politician as Miller was; too well coiffed and too “perfect” a small-c conservative to get a nod from the big-c Conservatives, so if the rumours are true, he was asked (or ordered) not to run in the 2010 election. There was no one standing in Ford’s way of getting conservative votes, and everyone but Ford was viewed as “left wing".
Exhibit D. Ford tapped a market that was previously a political landmine; the market of the secretly-ignorant.
The old trope around the world is that Canadians are polite and inoffensive. To some extent this is true. We certainly show more civility in our politics than our closest neighbour, to whom we’re so often compared. We are also more accepting of diversity and culture, which the sheer growth of Toronto demonstrates. As someone who grew up in small-town rural Ontario however, I can tell you there are a lot of ignorant, bigoted people out there. There are people who hold hateful and spiteful ideas that they never reveal in public, lest they be shamed for them. I have small-town family who still use the words “n!gger”, “towel heads” and “f@ggots”; but you’d never hear them use those words when they’re out in public. It’s ignorance held for private times, with people they feel they can trust.
Ford has demonstrated a lack of public shame. His homophobic, racist remarks are notoriously well known. He’s held back some since becoming Mayor, but as accounts of the crack tape demonstrate, it’s still there just waiting to bubble to the surface. We like to think few of Ford Nation knew of Ford’s own ignorance and bigotry before the election. I tend to disagree. A big number of centrists that voted for him didn’t know about his social failings, but I think he was well known to those who continue to circle the wagons even now, as His Honour’s hindenburg falls to the ground in spectacular flaming fashion.
His brazen bigotry made him a hero to those who held similar feelings. Ford’s ignorance gave them a small amount of permission to feel unashamed, with additional fuel added to the fire through columnists like Sue-Ann Levy. I believe this is why they claim his fiscal policies are what matters, yet ignore the known facts that show his fiscal claims are nothing but bunk. This is also why—if Twitter and comments on the Toronto Sun website are to be used as any measure—Ford Nation appears to hide bigotry under a disguise of fiscal responsibility. There’s still enough disincentive of societal shame to keep them from outright displays of racism and homophobia, but as long as he spurns the Pride parade, and votes against social programs for poor immigrants, they will continue to vote for him.
This newfound freedom from shame, is what’s allowed Ford Nation to be so vocal and seem like such a massive power, when in reality being probably only about 30% of the population.
Exhibit E. The rise of Tea Party politics.
Canada, perhaps like no other country in the world, is dominated by the media of another. In our case, it’s the the United States. With most of us living so close to the US border, this is inevitable. And with that comes some degree of political sway on Canadian politics. The Tea Party has many sympathizers north of the border. Despite it having little bearing on our own politics, there are many Canadians who closely follow and hold opinions on the actions of Michelle Bachmann, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. Their pseudo-claim of “looking out for the taxpayers”, holds a lot of sway up here. Our economy has taken a hit, and appealing to those who are now questioning where their taxes are going is a cheap, but effective way of destabilizing political views.
Unfortunately, the words often speak louder than the actions, despite the old adage. Even though the tea party is essentially controlled by billionaire (Koch) brothers who’ve routinely shown a disdain towards the poor and tax-burdened, they’ve created a narrative of empowering that very same group. Rob Ford has himself reflected this. His promises of no service cuts and “saving billions” is dishonest at it’s best, but it’s been horribly effective. He’s appealed to that very same group as the Tea Party and has had the same effect.
In conclusion, it’s easy to think that Ford Nation will never end. If the recent U.S. Government Shutdown is any indication however, there is a limit to how far sheer gaul will get you, and the Tea Party has begun losing favour down south. Ideology took precedence over the actual saving of “taxpayers money” and the public saw that. The scapegoating of Democrats for the mess didn’t work this time, and the Tea Party republicans were forced to capitulate to stem the losses of both poll numbers and fellow republicans.
The same has begun happening to Rob Ford. It won’t be the crack video that breaks his back, it will be a combination of a failure of everything. All five of the above exhibits are cracking:
A) David Miller is no longer seeming the worst mayor in the room in comparison to a man who hangs out with drug and gun runners, smokes crack, has been actively investigated by the police and lies about it all for nearly six months straight.
B) Conservative scandals everywhere are impacting negatively pushing the pendulum away from the right.
C) Sane-minded conservative candidates have already said they will throw their hats in the mayoral ring.
D) His followers haven shown more repulsive and shameful gaul in defending him. This is turning the image of Ford Nation into something closer to Heaven’s Gate than legitimate political change.
E) His lies and fiscal “accomplishments” are being questioned more and more in the media.
It’s all there, and sanity and sobriety is righting the ship. The storm is ending sooner than later.
As vocal as they are and as sure as they are that Ford will win another election (if he makes it that far), Ford Nation is not a movement here to stay.
Rob Ford’s election was a perfect storm.
Exhibit A. Anger towards David Miller, and all he stood for.
Ford won the election on the tails of disdain for Miller, we all know that. Miller had a remarkably high approval rating for almost 6 years until a lose-lose contract negotiation situation fell into his lap. He gambled (ironically) on the side of the "taxpayers", refusing to capitulate to some pretty hefty demands. If he'd given in, he'd have been labelled a union sympathizer, so he took a chance on allowing a strike. A few weeks in and the public was irate about a lack of garbage pickup, his political fate had been sealed. He didn’t run for re-election, denying many the catharsis and satisfaction of voting against him. These angry people were left needing to vote in a Anti-Miller, just out of spite.
This was the spark that lit Ford Nation, but it's not what fueled the inferno.
Exhibit B. A poor economy makes the pendulum swing.
Politics tends to act like a pendulum. When we vote one political direction, odds are the future will see a swing back to the other side. This is most evident in the US presidential elections, where there’s no centrist third party (well, none close to having any chance). There are a few exceptions, but it seems increasingly rare that an incumbent on any one political side is followed by a new president on the same side of the spectrum. The seat of the president seems in a regular pattern of democrat-republican over and over and over.
But here in our parliamentary federal and provincial elections, we have a third, centrist party. That means that when we don’t “need” the extremes of the spectrum—such as in times of economic boom—we don’t vote for them. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that in more stable economic times, we tend to vote the Liberal party into power, and the Conservatives and NDP pick up more votes during harder times. The last federal election is pretty good proof of that, with the Liberals taking third place.
Our mayoral election shares more in common with the US presidential elections than it does our own party-based parliamentary elections. A lack of parties makes it less likely that anyone will be easily defined as centrist. It’s much easier for people to define in a black and white fashion, without intently following what they say and do. Though Miller was closer to the centre than the far left, he “appeared” as a far-leftist and depicted by many as downright communist, leaving the pendulum to easily swing to the right.
Exhibit C. There was no right wing competition against Rob Ford.
Pantalone was NDP, and Smitherman and Rossi were Liberals, despite Rossi’s piss-poor attempt to court the right wing vote with talk of outsourcing. Tory was as much as politician as Miller was; too well coiffed and too “perfect” a small-c conservative to get a nod from the big-c Conservatives, so if the rumours are true, he was asked (or ordered) not to run in the 2010 election. There was no one standing in Ford’s way of getting conservative votes, and everyone but Ford was viewed as “left wing".
Exhibit D. Ford tapped a market that was previously a political landmine; the market of the secretly-ignorant.
The old trope around the world is that Canadians are polite and inoffensive. To some extent this is true. We certainly show more civility in our politics than our closest neighbour, to whom we’re so often compared. We are also more accepting of diversity and culture, which the sheer growth of Toronto demonstrates. As someone who grew up in small-town rural Ontario however, I can tell you there are a lot of ignorant, bigoted people out there. There are people who hold hateful and spiteful ideas that they never reveal in public, lest they be shamed for them. I have small-town family who still use the words “n!gger”, “towel heads” and “f@ggots”; but you’d never hear them use those words when they’re out in public. It’s ignorance held for private times, with people they feel they can trust.
Ford has demonstrated a lack of public shame. His homophobic, racist remarks are notoriously well known. He’s held back some since becoming Mayor, but as accounts of the crack tape demonstrate, it’s still there just waiting to bubble to the surface. We like to think few of Ford Nation knew of Ford’s own ignorance and bigotry before the election. I tend to disagree. A big number of centrists that voted for him didn’t know about his social failings, but I think he was well known to those who continue to circle the wagons even now, as His Honour’s hindenburg falls to the ground in spectacular flaming fashion.
His brazen bigotry made him a hero to those who held similar feelings. Ford’s ignorance gave them a small amount of permission to feel unashamed, with additional fuel added to the fire through columnists like Sue-Ann Levy. I believe this is why they claim his fiscal policies are what matters, yet ignore the known facts that show his fiscal claims are nothing but bunk. This is also why—if Twitter and comments on the Toronto Sun website are to be used as any measure—Ford Nation appears to hide bigotry under a disguise of fiscal responsibility. There’s still enough disincentive of societal shame to keep them from outright displays of racism and homophobia, but as long as he spurns the Pride parade, and votes against social programs for poor immigrants, they will continue to vote for him.
This newfound freedom from shame, is what’s allowed Ford Nation to be so vocal and seem like such a massive power, when in reality being probably only about 30% of the population.
Exhibit E. The rise of Tea Party politics.
Canada, perhaps like no other country in the world, is dominated by the media of another. In our case, it’s the the United States. With most of us living so close to the US border, this is inevitable. And with that comes some degree of political sway on Canadian politics. The Tea Party has many sympathizers north of the border. Despite it having little bearing on our own politics, there are many Canadians who closely follow and hold opinions on the actions of Michelle Bachmann, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. Their pseudo-claim of “looking out for the taxpayers”, holds a lot of sway up here. Our economy has taken a hit, and appealing to those who are now questioning where their taxes are going is a cheap, but effective way of destabilizing political views.
Unfortunately, the words often speak louder than the actions, despite the old adage. Even though the tea party is essentially controlled by billionaire (Koch) brothers who’ve routinely shown a disdain towards the poor and tax-burdened, they’ve created a narrative of empowering that very same group. Rob Ford has himself reflected this. His promises of no service cuts and “saving billions” is dishonest at it’s best, but it’s been horribly effective. He’s appealed to that very same group as the Tea Party and has had the same effect.
In conclusion, it’s easy to think that Ford Nation will never end. If the recent U.S. Government Shutdown is any indication however, there is a limit to how far sheer gaul will get you, and the Tea Party has begun losing favour down south. Ideology took precedence over the actual saving of “taxpayers money” and the public saw that. The scapegoating of Democrats for the mess didn’t work this time, and the Tea Party republicans were forced to capitulate to stem the losses of both poll numbers and fellow republicans.
The same has begun happening to Rob Ford. It won’t be the crack video that breaks his back, it will be a combination of a failure of everything. All five of the above exhibits are cracking:
A) David Miller is no longer seeming the worst mayor in the room in comparison to a man who hangs out with drug and gun runners, smokes crack, has been actively investigated by the police and lies about it all for nearly six months straight.
B) Conservative scandals everywhere are impacting negatively pushing the pendulum away from the right.
C) Sane-minded conservative candidates have already said they will throw their hats in the mayoral ring.
D) His followers haven shown more repulsive and shameful gaul in defending him. This is turning the image of Ford Nation into something closer to Heaven’s Gate than legitimate political change.
E) His lies and fiscal “accomplishments” are being questioned more and more in the media.
It’s all there, and sanity and sobriety is righting the ship. The storm is ending sooner than later.
cutlass
New Member
Thanks, I will check that one out. The Scribd one seems time consuming. Also reply to earlier post, yes I am pretty late to the party. I am not from Toronto, so some things I was not aware of. Can't believe how deep it runs.
adma
Superstar
Just like how, in Australia, Pauline Hanson's One Nation was doomed from the getgo.
heywriterboy
New Member
Reading several pages back about Metro Man's encounter with shouting 905'er loogens on King Street (I also live on King West, about two blocks from the infamous Loki club & Friday/Saturday nite is a Sh*tshow) several threads are coming together.
Not about the sordid truth of this whole thing, no... that will trickle out at its own pace. But the tribalism inherent in that encounter, and in FordNation's continued support of Rob, begs for a new approach to them. I don't know what that approach is, exactly, but I do have a sense of its parameters.
Let's start from this: I'm like a lot of centre-left or even centre-right citizens in my feelings about how to solve the City's problems. I identified with, and was generally happy with, David Miller as Mayor. If we were to graft the David Miller story onto Rob Ford, where would I have been "out?"
Probably at the Garrison Ball, if not before. For all the Fordites pivoting to "Justin!" "Layton got a HJ!" etc, etc. Most of the people I know are pragmatic, fact based. And if "our" candidate had been reported like that at the Garrison Ball, I would have been out. I probably would have been out long before that, but let's just take that as the point things started to get really crazy.
But the Fordites blew past that, and so much more besides. We've seen how that played out. We've even seen some decent explanations. We've talked about "confirmation bias." People have quoted studies about how when presented with facts that countermand a strongly held belief, the right doubles down on their belief.
But what I think too many of us don't recognize is the mechanism that allows them to make that leap. It's a toxic combo of the aggressive braggadocio and sneering that we see -- the name calling about elites, etc. But underneath there's a well of great fear and a sense of persecution. They really, truly believe that there is a monolithic left keeping them down -- and anyone who breaks through to be able to put that monolithic, all-powerful left in place must be supported at all costs. This is how the cult of personality on the right works. You see it with Harper too. In power for how many years, and he still gives speeches talking about how they're under siege from the leftist boogeyman.
Meanwhile, we're all horrified and embarrassed to see Ford's ratings go up or stay the same. And we keep trying to respond with facts -- about how he hasn't saved a billion dollars, about how most of everything he claims is BS. But that's not going to work, because his supporters are dialed in to this powerful well of persecution, emotion, and tribalism.
Now back to Metroman's King Street Loogens. What they are as well, as much as tribal about their support, is locked into a certain simple, emotion-based view of right/wrong and what to do. If we are going to make arguments that peel away their support, that makes them less likely to gas off in public -- we have to hit them there. It might be unpleasant. It might even get you into more uncomfortable fights. But now that the world is laughing at not Rob Ford -- but us, Toronto, all -- something else must be tried.
And I think it's very much tied into the things they think are THEIR core values. Personal responsibility. So...
"He's not being a man. A man owns up to what he did, and takes the consequences. Without taking the consequences there's no words."
"He lied to us for months. The only way to show he's got honor is to resign and then run again in 2014."
Those are bad first drafts. When encountering anyone at this point who still supports Ford, they are NOT. THINKING. RATIONALLY. You cannot convince with facts. You have to hit them at the core. Traditionally, progressives are bad at that kind of thing. But we have to get better --
--because this phenomenon is not going away, and it's the only way that maybe you start to peel away support. There will be great dissonance if you say to a Ford supporter, "If you were doing something like that, would you get to skate away with just an empty apology? Or would you be a man and accept consequences? How can you keep supporting a guy who won't even be a man about it?"
My two cents. Thanks for reading.
Not about the sordid truth of this whole thing, no... that will trickle out at its own pace. But the tribalism inherent in that encounter, and in FordNation's continued support of Rob, begs for a new approach to them. I don't know what that approach is, exactly, but I do have a sense of its parameters.
Let's start from this: I'm like a lot of centre-left or even centre-right citizens in my feelings about how to solve the City's problems. I identified with, and was generally happy with, David Miller as Mayor. If we were to graft the David Miller story onto Rob Ford, where would I have been "out?"
Probably at the Garrison Ball, if not before. For all the Fordites pivoting to "Justin!" "Layton got a HJ!" etc, etc. Most of the people I know are pragmatic, fact based. And if "our" candidate had been reported like that at the Garrison Ball, I would have been out. I probably would have been out long before that, but let's just take that as the point things started to get really crazy.
But the Fordites blew past that, and so much more besides. We've seen how that played out. We've even seen some decent explanations. We've talked about "confirmation bias." People have quoted studies about how when presented with facts that countermand a strongly held belief, the right doubles down on their belief.
But what I think too many of us don't recognize is the mechanism that allows them to make that leap. It's a toxic combo of the aggressive braggadocio and sneering that we see -- the name calling about elites, etc. But underneath there's a well of great fear and a sense of persecution. They really, truly believe that there is a monolithic left keeping them down -- and anyone who breaks through to be able to put that monolithic, all-powerful left in place must be supported at all costs. This is how the cult of personality on the right works. You see it with Harper too. In power for how many years, and he still gives speeches talking about how they're under siege from the leftist boogeyman.
Meanwhile, we're all horrified and embarrassed to see Ford's ratings go up or stay the same. And we keep trying to respond with facts -- about how he hasn't saved a billion dollars, about how most of everything he claims is BS. But that's not going to work, because his supporters are dialed in to this powerful well of persecution, emotion, and tribalism.
Now back to Metroman's King Street Loogens. What they are as well, as much as tribal about their support, is locked into a certain simple, emotion-based view of right/wrong and what to do. If we are going to make arguments that peel away their support, that makes them less likely to gas off in public -- we have to hit them there. It might be unpleasant. It might even get you into more uncomfortable fights. But now that the world is laughing at not Rob Ford -- but us, Toronto, all -- something else must be tried.
And I think it's very much tied into the things they think are THEIR core values. Personal responsibility. So...
"He's not being a man. A man owns up to what he did, and takes the consequences. Without taking the consequences there's no words."
"He lied to us for months. The only way to show he's got honor is to resign and then run again in 2014."
Those are bad first drafts. When encountering anyone at this point who still supports Ford, they are NOT. THINKING. RATIONALLY. You cannot convince with facts. You have to hit them at the core. Traditionally, progressives are bad at that kind of thing. But we have to get better --
--because this phenomenon is not going away, and it's the only way that maybe you start to peel away support. There will be great dissonance if you say to a Ford supporter, "If you were doing something like that, would you get to skate away with just an empty apology? Or would you be a man and accept consequences? How can you keep supporting a guy who won't even be a man about it?"
My two cents. Thanks for reading.
ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
That's what's bizarre about the tea party. Usually extremely ideological factions are a one time occurrence, it's weird to see any of them translate into a longer term movement. But I mean, it really has only been three years since the emergence of the tea party, and obviously their influence and creation wasn't organic in nature and was in fact funded by big financial interests the Koch brother, so they should probably be viewed as an outlier and their ability to last still remains to be tested.
cutlass, don't worry about it. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. I'm happy to see more people familiarize themselves with this situation and go beyond the headlines to seek out information.
runningnowhere
New Member
Rather quiet on the Ford front this weekend. What happens tomorrow?
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adma
Superstar
Though it's interesting how "flat" that was, as far as trolling goes--i.e. nothing more than "there won't be any change", as opposed to "rah rah Ford". And it's a "there won't be any change" note that even various left/anti-Ford types have been regretfully sounding; the core remains stable, if takes his break and comes back fists a-pumpin' he'll probably be elected again, etc.
Never mind that all these revelations, gaffes, etc are ferociously pushing the case for no-change to the exploding point.
adma
Superstar
There's still a natural impulse out there t/w respect and decorum, you know--in fact, that's what probably turns them off about the anti-Ford crowd; the impression that they're all boo/hiss about it.
If there's a need to be anti-Ford, said Cons will express it in their own terms--y'know, muttering to each other rather than booing, etc.
And in a funny way, I'd even argue likewise about Remembrance Day; unless he blows cookies on the Cenotaph, Ford is better off left alone for that ceremonial moment, should he choose to attend and represent. But before and after, he's fair game...
adma
Superstar
And the thing about Pauline Hanson and One Nation is IIRC that they *didn't* have any corresponding Koch Brothers force behind it. All they had was "the people"--a little like what the Ford team might be reduced to as soon as they lose support from council, Bay Street, even Kouvalis, etc. And the Ford Brothers are no Koch Brothers.
heywriterboy
New Member
Zang, enjoyed your take. But one thing -- I believe that even post-Garbage strike, polls showed that Miller was very popular and would have won again had he run. I know a few close to him and he really did retire for the reasons he said -- he wanted to be with his kids before they grew up. He was hardly "forced" to not run.
Him dropping out changed the dynamic of the race utterly. And Smitherman & Pantalone were terrible candidates. And the pros who backed Rob Ford genuinely whipped up lightning in a bottle.
Him dropping out changed the dynamic of the race utterly. And Smitherman & Pantalone were terrible candidates. And the pros who backed Rob Ford genuinely whipped up lightning in a bottle.
gravytrain
New Member
If you Google the K. Ford contact phone number listed in the resume, one of the search results is a Kijiji listing for "Grow lights with ballast and covers."
pattycakes
Senior Member
The Rob Ford Files has been updated, it now has bios for the cast of characters in Ford's world. Great work.
http://robfordfiles.com/people/774/barbudan-dima
http://robfordfiles.com/people/774/barbudan-dima
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