[TOperson]

Yes I understand that. I think my point is, some people prefer booze, some prefer weed or some other substances. Many of us know people who supply. I guess my point is, they are regular people, just like us.

But how many of us know suppliers who operate at a level that requires them to think about whether they are being secretly recorded? That is by no means "regular", regardless of what other jobs that person might hold or how they dress or whatever. To know ONE person like that is uncommon, to know more strikes me as particularly noteworthy, and that's why I asked.

Unless there is a lot more drug dealing and using going on than I'm aware of (certainly possible), in which case, no wonder Ford has still has support. He really IS behaving like other people, and that's why they don't have a problem with it.

This conversation is inadvertently revealing a weird contradiction. UTers are saying "lots of of us know people who deal drugs" and yet there are hundreds of pages full of "OMG Rob Ford associates with drug dealers" on UT as well.

 

[dienw]

Could Ford claim he was just describing what he was thinking at that moment and he wasn't actually defaming Dale?

Jackson Proskow wrote earlier tonight on Twitter: "Just reviewing tape from 2012 fencegate incident. Back then Mayor Ford said he thought Daniel Dale was 'spying on me... peeping Tom'"

https://twitter.com/JProskowGlobal/status/411616314701004801

Perhaps Rob continued by expressing concern for his kids on the tape, but Proskow didn't mention that.

(I've been reading since early this year, but figured I'd join to post this since I hadn't noticed it being mentioned yet. It seemed relevant. Carry on.)

 

[Jado]

This conversation is inadvertently revealing a weird contradiction. UTers are saying "lots of of us know people who deal drugs" and yet there are hundreds of pages full of "OMG Rob Ford associates with drug dealers" on UT as well.

For heaven's sake.

Rob Ford spent enormous amounts of time and energy, almost certainly during both office hours and not just personal time, pursuing one objective: to get flat out f*cking wasted any way he could. Did he also pursue other hobbies, other forms of betterment, some volunteer work perhaps? Can't say for sure but I wouldn't hedge my bets.

Based on what has been described in the ITO, his social circle - indeed, his social life!! - comprised criminals (convicted and otherwise), some violent, many habitual.

Knowing a couple drug dealers is FAR different than immersing yourself in filth as has -- wait for it -- OUR MAYOR.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I assume your question is about whether that would be a viable defense, because if you're just asking if any of us think RoFo might try that angle, well, of course he could.

I am not a lawyer and do not have any real knowledge of related statutes or precedents. But God help us all if that kind of crap could fly in a court of law.

If Rob shot his mouth off within a few hours of the incident and never mentioned it again after he cooled off, maybe he was just an overheated overreacting asshole for a short period of time and ought to be given the benefit of the doubt.

But Rob brought the story up apropos of nothing but a vague and pandering question from Conrad Black a year and a half after the incident, then said he stood behind his account two more times, and got backed up by Doug. Rob and Doug must pay, literally, with cash, and figuratively, with their reputations somehow going even farther below zero than they already are.

He could try it. But, as I said before, he'd have to explain why pictures on the night show no cinderblocks, but the next day, cinderblocks!
He'd be asked if he had security cam footage and where is it. Oh, you don't have it anymore...? Did anyone see it? Oh, a police officer did? Well, lemme just call them to the stand...Oh, they say they saw it and Dale is not seen at the fence and they told you this? Do you recall the conversation? Do you recall that no charges were filed? Why were no charges filed?

He'll get torn apart on the stand, just like he did in the conflict of interest.
don't forget: he was TOTALLY caught in a conflict of interest and only got off because the appeal judge agreed that the integrity commissioner had no right in the first place to impose the penalty he was voting on. His testimony was an amazing exercise in shooting down every possible defense he had, right down to thinking his personal definition of "conflict" would prevail over the courts. That stuff won't fly. "I don't think I libelled him because I think he was looking at my kids over a fence....even though some of my previous comments and the police investigation totally refute this narrative I've randomly dredged up in the past few weeks."

 

[dforthandbview]

This is going around Twitter:

"Just reported on The National - Flaherty was pissed Kenney called for Ford to resign. And they got into a tense exchange."

"Flaherty yelled at Jason Kenney to "shut up" about Rob Ford on the floor of the House of Commons???"

"CBC says Flaherty swore at Kenney and told him to "shut up." Some MPs and cabinet ministers watching said it was all very awkward."

Here's the CBC article:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ken...parked-profane-rebuke-from-flaherty-1.2463984

Flaherty said "shut the fuck up". Wild.

 

[CalgarianExOntarian]

This conversation is inadvertently revealing a weird contradiction. UTers are saying "lots of of us know people who deal drugs" and yet there are hundreds of pages full of "OMG Rob Ford associates with drug dealers" on UT as well.

I don't see the contradiction and I don't see what is inadvertent. If, which I doubt, you can find a specific poster saying in one post that illegal drug dealing is totally okay but saying in another post that admitted illegal drug consumption by one guy, Rob Ford, is unforgivable, you have a point, against that one poster. You do not have a point against a very (and enjoyably, IMO) heterogeneous community.

 

[CalgarianExOntarian]

Flaherty said "shut the fuck up". Wild.

So Harper may be having a bad evening. That's really unfortunate, I say, with a deep lack of sincerity. To put [fake] words in the PM's mouth (or [fake] thoughts in the PM's mind) ... "That Duffy appointment was a mistake but WTF!!! I trusted Flaherty ..."

 

[Dottie]

"I don't think I libelled him because I think he was looking at my kids over a fence....even though some of my previous comments and the police investigation totally refute this narrative I've randomly dredged up in the past few weeks."

I have trouble believing that this is something the Mayor "randomly dredged up in the past few weeks". My impression of that Conrad Black interview was that it was rehearsed, if not scripted to some extent. Unless he's delusional, Rob Ford knows that most of what he said about the Daniel Dale incident is provably wrong. So why would he choose to bring up this particular incident and frame it in this particular way? If it was a spontaneous outburst, I could understand that, but it didn't seem spontaneous at all. It seemed very deliberate (even to the point of not saying "that word").

Why is Ford going after Daniel Dale? I would have thought that there were other reporters who would be much higher up the list of people the Mayor would like to get removed from reporting on him. And why would he do it now, so long after the episode? Bringing it up again just gives everyone a chance to go over the details. And those details look even worse when viewed in light of everything we now know. Now that we've seen the "I'll rip his throat out" video, a raging Rob Ford is so much easier to picture.

Did Daniel Dale do something particularly harmful to the Ford brothers?

 

[GeekGirl]

But how many of us know suppliers who operate at a level that requires them to think about whether they are being secretly recorded? That is by no means "regular", regardless of what other jobs that person might hold or how they dress or whatever. To know ONE person like that is uncommon, to know more strikes me as particularly noteworthy, and that's why I asked.

Unless there is a lot more drug dealing and using going on than I'm aware of (certainly possible), in which case, no wonder Ford has still has support. He really IS behaving like other people, and that's why they don't have a problem with it.

This conversation is inadvertently revealing a weird contradiction. UTers are saying "lots of of us know people who deal drugs" and yet there are hundreds of pages full of "OMG Rob Ford associates with drug dealers" on UT as well.

I don't know if that's true. I think most people are upset that we have a tough on crime, 'jail crack users' (Ford's actual sentiments) right wing law and order hypocrite of the worst kind. It is about seeing the office of Mayor become a farce, where any drunk with poor impulse control and a penchant for lying pathologically can lead such a huge diverse city (as long as you have money). The issue is not that he smokes 'a lot' of weed. The issue is that he has done what so many younger, non-white men have done, yet he is mayor, while they are all in jail. It is about talking about being a saviour to the poor, handing out money and visiting THCH units while advocating against housing that would benefit the people he claims to represent. Rob Ford has brought the office of the mayor down so far, we think anything looks good.

Re: drugs. I think lots of drugs should be fully legalized. I think most on the left do. Again, this is not about drugs. It is about lack of ability to lead, think critically and most of all about hypocrisy.

 

[Crazy]

But Rob Ford lied to Black, and Black believed him, which led directly to Black looking like a lazy idiot in his interview with Carol Off.

It must be a tad galling to his Lord Worship that out of this entire Rob Ford shitstorm he (Black) is the one who gets nailed hardest in a media interview ... despite the 100-150 IQ points he has on Ford.

 

[CalgarianExOntarian]

It must be a tad galling to his Lord Worship that out of this entire Rob Ford shitstorm he (Black) is the one who gets nailed hardest in a media interview ... despite the 100-150 IQ points he has on Ford.

Yeah, in a story that is mostly ugly (why should Toronto have such a horribly poor leader of govt, why should a decent and honest person like Daniel Dale have to deal with so much unfair crap?) it's sort of beautiful that Black understands so acutely that he's made himself look bad. I just don't understand why, despite all his arrogance and past ethical failings, Black doesn't aim whatever poor weapons he has left against Rob Ford, who despite the giant IQ gap, is the creator of Black's current problems.

 

[SunriseChampion]

But what I really want to know is: how do you happen to know more than one of this kind of drug dealer? I still think it's unusual. It doesn't really matter, of course, I'm just curious. Maybe you don't want to get into it, and that's fine.

By at one point being a pharmacist myself....and being a user. Obviously.

Well, that and I've made a few good friends in my time who happen to be chemists or pharmacists.

I should also put it out there that the drug world isn't populated entirely by cartels, human smugglers, and gang bangers. Lots of very decent human beings as well. Hell, make it all legal and you'll see.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I don't have a problem with drug users. I have a problem with drug abusers taking us for a ride.
If Rob Ford did crack in his spare time but was otherwise a decent, honest, respectable person I wouldn't care. At all.

It's the fact he isn't in control enough to do drugs properly and responsibly; and is an otherwise shitty human being that bothers me.

Not to mention the type of shitty people he calls friends. I said it earlier: I don't deal with the stabby, gang bang type.

Oh....and, uh, he happens to be CHIEF MAGISTRATE. That used to mean something.

If I get too drunk, who cares? I'm not in a position of any authority. (Working class scum, right here)

He is, and he has acted a complete fool.

PS: Yes, there is a difference between drug users and abusers....but I'm sure all are clear on that.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Nothing like having a convicted criminal to blister about anything after allowing a sociopath to insinuate his critic is a pedophile on his TV show without a smidgen of proof.

AoD

Ha!

Wasn't it odd? The Black-Off interview. He seems highly intelligent (which is why I always respected him), yet....wtf is going through his head. Even days later!

 

[k10ery]

Could Ford claim he was just describing what he was thinking at that moment and he wasn't actually defaming Dale?

I'm not a lawyer, but hey, we can all pretend to be experts on everything nowadays thanks to Google. I don't think that would be a valid defence. Libel is a strict liability tort in Canada: Ford's intent or his negligence is not relevant. All that matters is whether reasonable people could have interpreted what he said as defamatory. (On that, I think there is plenty of evidence given how Twitter lit up as soon as his statement was broadcast. But Ford would probably have to fight on that point - that Dale was never actually defamed.)

However, your strategy is what Mr. Black wrote in his column today:

"I took this to mean that Ford was uncertain of what he was dealing with until he saw that it was a journalist; and that he considered Mr. Dale to be unacceptably nosy, but there was no thought that Mr. Dale himself was himself a deviant. ... As the show was being aired, Star spokespeople accused the mayor of implying that Mr. Dale was a pedophile. He did not, and none of us at the program interpreted his remarks in that way."

Black knows a lot about libel law, obviously - nobody uses it more than him. I take it his strategy in court would be to claim that he and Zoomer are not liable because they were innocently disseminating a statement they did not see as defamatory.

Could work, I guess. But Black seems negligent to me. He very foolishly admitted to Carol Off that he did nothing to verify any of Ford's statements before the broadcast. In the journalism world, that's negligence, plain and simple.