[M II A II R II K]

It's best to let the Sheppard LRT operate with a Sheppard subway transfer and then decide what's best to change from then on. Particularly since those T1s will not be in service beyond 2030, and I doubt they'll bother to put TRs on Sheppard.

 

[nfitz]

Particularly since those T1s will not be in service beyond 2030, and I doubt they'll bother to put TRs on Sheppard.

By 2030 they are talking about replacing the T1s. The current talk is replacing the 80 TRs with 7-car trains, and moving the TRs to Bloor-Danforth. However they currently only run 43 trains on the BD line. With spares, the 2030 demand is in the low 60s. They only run 4 trains on the Sheppard line. They'd have no problem removing 2 cars from a dozen TR trains and running them on Sheppard in 2030 if there was some explosion in demand. This isn't a real issue until the mid-2040s or so.

 

[CDL.TO]

Ideally, if they could use Primove and raise the trackbed through the station, that would be ideal, and might be a lot cheaper than previously estimated. I made the same comment a couple of times in the Sheppard East LRT thread years ago. Now that Primove is further advanced, perhaps the feasibility should be revisited.

Do we really want to commit ourselves to another proprietary Bombardier technology?

 

[nfitz]

Do we really want to commit ourselves to another proprietary Bombardier technology?

Fair enough. Perhaps we can find some boffins in an Ontario government research lab to dream something up instead.

 

[johntauren]

You are assuming that the ridership of the through LRT line (after conversion) will be substantially higher than the ridership of a route with transfer (LRT east of Don Mills, subway west of it). But I doubt this assumption.

People who have to use the Sheppard corridor, will use it anyway. A same-platform transfer should not be a big deterrent.

People located at other corridors, will not go out of their way in order to use Sheppard LRT. It will not be fast enough to make such detour sensible. Sure, it will be faster than mixed-traffic buses, but the need to take a N-S bus and transfer will negate the saving.

$670 million can build half of Finch East LRT. Add a bit more, and we have both Finch E and Sheppard E.

Finch and Sheppard are fairly close together. I think too close together for both to have an LRT east of Yonge in the near future- as in there should be other priorites first. (~2km between Finch and Sheppard, ~5km between Bloor and Eglinton, ~6km between Eglinton and Sheppard)

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Creating a transfer at Fairview Mall will not be practical in the future. You either do the LRT conversion or build the subway in full.

 

[ehlow]

Creating a transfer at Fairview Mall will not be practical in the future. You either do the LRT conversion or build the subway in full.

"Creating a transfer"? There's already a transfer. Bus to subway is a transfer, just as bad, probably worse than LRT to subway. The transfers been there for >10 years now. What changes in the future that makes the transfer not practical?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

"Creating a transfer"? There's already a transfer. Bus to subway is a transfer, just as bad, probably worse than LRT to subway. The transfers been there for >10 years now. What changes in the future that makes the transfer not practical?

The fact that the transfer is largely unnecessary and only exists because another form of RT was on the corridor. This is not like Eglinton or Finch West. It should be converted to full LRT

 

[ehlow]

The fact that it makes no sense to go from LRT to subway. There's already a subway on the corridor. This is not like Eglinton or Finch West. It should be converted to full LRT

Why? Does it make sense to go from bus to subway?

 

[sixrings]

The fact that the transfer is largely unnecessary and only exists because another form of RT was on the corridor. This is not like Eglinton or Finch West. It should be converted to full LRT

I don't like transfers on the same route which is why I advocate for eglinton getting completed to the airport. At the same time I think what makes more sense in this case is to get the DRL as far north as possible. Hopefully Sheppard so that people transfer onto the DRL instead. I think money towards making the DRL get further north is better use of funds.

 

[ehlow]

The fact that the transfer is largely unnecessary and only exists because another form of RT was on the corridor. This is not like Eglinton or Finch West. It should be converted to full LRT

The thing is, when you build a subway or other RT line, you'll always get a transfer where that subway ends.

Say you spend 6 years extending Sheppard to Vic Park, then you'll have a "forced transfer" at Vic Park for the next 10-15 years after that until the next expansion.

When the Yonge subway was built, you had a transfer at Eglinton, then now, 60 years later, we still have a transfer at Finch.

I guess you could theoretically have all subways in a loop to avoid that lol. However I wouldn't wait for that to happen in my lifetime.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't like transfers on the same route which is why I advocate for eglinton getting completed to the airport. At the same time I think what makes more sense in this case is to get the DRL as far north as possible. Hopefully Sheppard so that people transfer onto the DRL instead. I think money towards making the DRL get further north is better use of funds.

That is something I can agree too. I feel that the DRL going to Fairview Mall would solve a whole host of issues, and dissapte the crowding on Yonge.

The thing is, when you build a subway or other RT line, you'll always get a transfer where that subway ends.

Say you spend 6 years extending Sheppard to Vic Park, then you'll have a "forced transfer" at Vic Park for the next 10-15 years after that until the next expansion.

When the Yonge subway was built, you had a transfer at Eglinton, then now, 60 years later, we still have a transfer at Finch.

I guess you could theoretically have all subways in a loop to avoid that lol. However I wouldn't wait for that to happen in my lifetime.

Fair enough. But I guess Fairview Mall just does not feel like a end to me.

 

[Rainforest]

Finch and Sheppard are fairly close together. I think too close together for both to have an LRT east of Yonge in the near future- as in there should be other priorites first. (~2km between Finch and Sheppard, ~5km between Bloor and Eglinton, ~6km between Eglinton and Sheppard)

The fact that Finch and Sheppard are close together, matters only if you expect residents Finch to use Sheppard LRT instead of their Finch bus. I don't think they will do so. The 2-km bus trip should take 7-8 min, but when waiting for bus + transferring + waiting for LRT are added, the cost of detour will come to at least 15 min. That cost will not be offset by the LRT ride to Yonge being faster than the bus ride to Yonge.

If the residents of both streets will use their local route, then the existence of LRT on Sheppard does not affect the utility of LRT on Finch.

 

[johntauren]

The fact that Finch and Sheppard are close together, matters only if you expect residents Finch to use Sheppard LRT instead of their Finch bus. I don't think they will do so. The 2-km bus trip should take 7-8 min, but when waiting for bus + transferring + waiting for LRT are added, the cost of detour will come to at least 15 min. That cost will not be offset by the LRT ride to Yonge being faster than the bus ride to Yonge.

If the residents of both streets will use their local route, then the existence of LRT on Sheppard does not affect the utility of LRT on Finch.

I just think that other lines should be considered first (like say perhaps a North-South route elsewhere in the city) before even thinking about building both a line along Sheppard East and Finch East. I'm not even sure if there is any talk of Finch East line, but there's certainly discussion about Sheppard East.
Essentially because the Sheppard Subway already exists. If it didn't, Finch straight across the city makes the most sense.

 

[nfitz]

Fair enough. But I guess Fairview Mall just does not feel like a end to me.

The transfer isn't in Fairview Mall. It's in the subway station. You don't need to enter Fairview Mall.

All you have to do is walk out of your subway car, walk across a relatively narrow platform, and into an LRT car. It's a far easier transfer than either much busier Yonge-Bloor or St. George. Should we eliminate those as well?