JasonParis
Moderator
We'd lose a park and two heritage buildings, not built with open concepts in mind, would be butchered.
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Dan416
Senior Member
It's not much of a park. And I don't think Simons would butcher those heritage buildings.
adma
Superstar
Except that if they were to build a store in this location, they'd practically *have* to compromise them to one extent or another...
pw20
Active Member
The southern building comes with the plot of land and the parkette. Its property extends far east to Victoria. The more northerly bank building is just the land that the bldg is on.
Parasucho - who owns the southerly building has an unofficial price of $20 million.
Any play for either of those bank buildings would have to contain some sort of condo/office/hotel play to make it financially worthwhile - IFF there is a Simons it will be one small piece of the puzzle.
Skeezix
Senior Member
This came up recently in the thread about the actual bank buildings, but there was a newspaper article in the past year or so on the two banks, and lack of any foreseeable developments on those two sites. Michael McClelland, one of the city's foremost heritage architects, was interviewed in the article, and he said that he'd been approached something like a dozen times over the years with various schemes to redevelop the two properties. Nobody could make the numbers work. It's not lack of interest which is keeping these two buildings dark.
If Simons wants to expand into the Toronto market, I can't imagine that they would pick such a difficult site. Even if they could figure out a way to do it financially, it would inevitably be a complicated and lengthy approvals process, which would delay their entry into the market. Never say never, but it seems unlikely.
If Simons wants to expand into the Toronto market, I can't imagine that they would pick such a difficult site. Even if they could figure out a way to do it financially, it would inevitably be a complicated and lengthy approvals process, which would delay their entry into the market. Never say never, but it seems unlikely.
Skeezix
Senior Member
The article I referred to above was in the Star in September 2009 and is here. My apologies -- McClelland actually said he has been approached half a dozen times.
An excerpt:
Most buildings on Yonge have gone through a dizzying array of uses. Bank buildings aren't like that. They're built with one use in mind. That's a hurdle for remodelers, made more challenging when the buildings, like these, are designated heritage properties.
McClelland says at least six private developers have approached his firm, ERA Architects Inc., about revamping the site. How could they put up a tower? And if so, how? Could they dig underneath the banks to provide parking?
Each time the engineering and financial numbers failed to crunch. Says McClelland: "It's a troubled site in the sense that no one can pull together a scenario."
An excerpt:
Most buildings on Yonge have gone through a dizzying array of uses. Bank buildings aren't like that. They're built with one use in mind. That's a hurdle for remodelers, made more challenging when the buildings, like these, are designated heritage properties.
McClelland says at least six private developers have approached his firm, ERA Architects Inc., about revamping the site. How could they put up a tower? And if so, how? Could they dig underneath the banks to provide parking?
Each time the engineering and financial numbers failed to crunch. Says McClelland: "It's a troubled site in the sense that no one can pull together a scenario."
DTowner
Active Member
I was going to say the same thing! Lol. But, I am one who doesn't like to be hassled by persistant staff. If I want your help, just be about for me to ask for it.
Simon's is great. When ever I go to Montréal it's pretty much the only spot I shop (for clothes). Shame they didn't come to Toronto!
urbandreamer
recession proof
I always found Simons rather dull--more interesting clothes can be bought on St Denis, Laurier, Old Montreal, etc. Simons is for the name brand crowd.......boring.
JasonParis
Moderator
Well yes, there's more interesting stuff on the Plateau, etc, but we are talking about a department store and as far as department stores in Canada go, they really don't get any better.
DTowner
Active Member
True, but if you're there for just a weekend and don't have time to venture too far from St Catharine, Simons is the place to go. I'm not going to spend my Saturday in Montréal in boutique shoppes (that usually cater to women) or vintage shoppes (again, mostly women). As far as (affordable) men's clothing goes — Simons is great.
I would love if they took over the Sears in the Eaton Centre downtown. If the news of the U.S. Sears buying out the Canadian division is true, that will mean Sears Canada will be crappier than it is right now and hopefully shut down and make room for something (hopefully) better. A Simons in the Eaton Centre would be awesome (and it would be great to have another Canadian store there).
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Skeezix
Senior Member
Fair enough, but that's kind of apples and oranges.
Patriot
Active Member
The perfect scenario would be to convert the Eaton Centre Sears into a half Simons / half Target. As mentioned before, the space is too large for any one retailer. By splitting it in half, two retailers can succeed.
Simons should -absolutely- be a part of Yorkdale's expansion. It would be the best time to open up at Yorkdale with new space.
Simons should -absolutely- be a part of Yorkdale's expansion. It would be the best time to open up at Yorkdale with new space.
Greg
New Member
Simons won't happen in the Yorkdale expansion. They said the expansion will bring 145,000 new sqft to the mall. Simons says they need their stores to be approx 100,000 sqft. Given that the expansion includes an entire food court, and 40 additional stores, it doesn't seem likely that a department store will be added.
Dan416
Senior Member
Maybe Simons can pick up some ex-Zellers locations from Target? Although I doubt they'll want any of those scraps.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Two factors that played into making the Zellers leases so valuable come into play here too. 1) There just is not a huge amount of retail real estate in Canada (relative to other markets) and established players have taken the vast majority of the space.....so new entrants have difficulty sourcing space in existing, well located, retail properties.....2) Many leases for significant tenants contain clauses that limit/exclude competing retailers from entering the space.
So, even if there was space at Yorkdale (and I agree the new expansion does not seem to provide it) for a Simons....would the existing, what, 3 department stores be able, via their leases, to stop them coming in?
So, even if there was space at Yorkdale (and I agree the new expansion does not seem to provide it) for a Simons....would the existing, what, 3 department stores be able, via their leases, to stop them coming in?