[Neil]

Does anyone thing that when they step onto their first GO EMU that John Tory will still be mayor? I doubt Metrolinx does.

 

[Rainforest]

As long as Torontonians are able to use the mainline rail lines to travel between the suburbs and downtown, Tory will get a pass. The real issues are frequencies, the number of stations, integration with the local surface routes, and of course the fare structure.

Nobody will call him to task for the semantics, nor for the physical shape of trains, color schemes and similar things that are of no importance for the majority of riders.

 

[salsa]

and what will Metrolinx come up with that will allow Tory to say its SmartTrack? Tory is not stupid

SmartTrack = "I built a new station at the Unilever site which was inevitably gonna happen anyway". Please re-elect me.

 

[Hopkins123]

SmartTrack = "I built a new station at the Unilever site which was inevitably gonna happen anyway". Please re-elect me.

Yeah, you start to get the sense that all these transit projects were inevitably going to happen no matter who was elected Mayor or who will become the next one. Doug and Olivia both campaigned on a DRL and now it's within the 15-year construction forecast.

It's too politically risky now, not to build rapid mass transit.

 

[ssiguy2]

I think to differentiate ST from other services, ST should just use regular catenary subway trains that are the same as it's new fleet. ST is just another name for a subway but it was called ST for political purposes and to appeal to the public who wouldn't believe another subway plan.

It will be kind of confusing to have 2 different trains going thru the corridors with some trains GO< others RER, and other's ST. ST should look just the same as regular subway cars so people can both understand the route and the fare.

 

[ottbike]

ST should look just the same as regular subway cars so people can both understand the route and the fare.

If ST ends up being its own brand (I.e. TTC and not just enhanced GO), I would expect to see high capacity EMUs with TTC markups. They could be double deckers, but we would be more likey to see those type of EMUs with GO RER id imagine.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The chance of ST specific trains is zero.

 

[mdrejhon]

That said, the chance of (roughly) route specific RER trains isn't zero. My prediction is Bramalea-Stoufville (+route variants like possible spurs) is probably more likely to use EMUs while LSE-LSW would more likely use electric locomotive driven bilevels for longer. The Weston sub is resignalled in a way to favour EMUs now (shorter headway capable route, and requiring faster acceleration from stops to maintain short headways).

This, though, may be "spun" as a ST influence on RER by Tory. Count on it.

 

[gweed123]

That said, the chance of (roughly) route specific RER trains isn't zero. My prediction is Bramalea-Stoufville (+route variants like possible spurs) is probably more likely to use EMUs while LSE-LSW would more likely use electric locomotive driven bilevels for longer. The Weston sub is resignalled in a way to favour EMUs now (shorter headway capable route, and requiring faster acceleration from stops to maintain short headways).

This, though, may be "spun" as a ST influence on RER by Tory. Count on it.

Here's the routes that I think will be featured in the initial RER deployment:

• Lakeshore: Port Credit to Pickering (with infill stations)
• Lakeshore: Burlington to Oshawa (running semi-express from Port Credit to Pickering)
• Brampton-Markham: Mt. Dennis or Pearson (if UPX is integrated) to Unionville (with infill stations)
• Brampton-Markham: Bramalea to Lincolnville (running semi-express from Mt. Dennis to Unionville)
• Barrie: Union to Aurora (with infill stations)
• Barrie: Union to Allandale (running semi-express from Aurora)

With this type of setup, the trips from further out aren't ridiculously long, and the trips from further in don't have to board already packed trains.

 

[robmausser]

The chance of ST specific trains is zero.

While thats technically true, Option B from the Metrolinx meeting discussed two levels of service for GO-RER, one with semi express service, and one with all-stop service.

I could see a mix of single level and bi-level EMU's being used for each service. Obviously single level for the multi-stop and bi-level for express.

Thats how they operate the S-Bahn in Berlin.

So while the Single level isn't technically Smarttrack, it is a separate service that operates very similar to Smarttrack and very well could use a different rolling stock type.

So not Smarttrack trains per say, but awfully similar, if Option B is used.

 

[ssiguy2]

Remember that ST should not only be made to make Torontonians trip's faster but also people coming from the outer suburbs/905.

Ideally Metrolinx should get rid of ALL GO stations in the city of Toronto. They should make the last station coming into the city ie Malton from the West and interchange station where anyone coming West from GO and going anywhere but Union should have to get out and transfer onto ST and then go from there.

Here's the idea with my VERY limited internet skills:

-----GO----------MALTON---------------------------- --UNION------------------------------UNIONVILLE-----------GO--------
ST/MALTON - - -EN--Wes--Egl--BW--LV--UNION--CT--QE--Pape--Ken----UNIONVILLE/ST

Those may not be all the stations but you get the drift.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Can they calculate whether a 5 minute frequency of ST with GO RER with 15 minute frequency using the same tracks at the same time....

Maybe if the new ST stations should have side tracks so other trains can bypass them without having to wait behind a stopping ST train.

 

[crs1026]

Maybe if the new ST stations should have side tracks so other trains can bypass them without having to wait behind a stopping ST train.

The sidings have to be longer than just the station platform length. You need enough of a spacing that the stopping train can move clear of the main line without leaving any restrictive signals behind it. If RER gets closer, it would have been getting 'yellowish' signals (I'm deliberately simplifying the CROR here) requiring it to begin slowing down.

And you then have to give the ST train enough trackage out of the station to move onwards without delay, once its station stop is complete.

At the speeds we're talking about - at the moment where the ST train clears into the siding, giving RER a green light, the RER train will have to be be several miles behind. If it is several miles behind, it will take several minutes to catch up and overtake the ST train. The ST train's station dwell time is only a minute or less. If the RER hasn't gone by yet, it will have to sit and wait until the RER goes by, and then until RER is a couple miles ahead so that signals will clear for ST...unless.... it has its own track to use to continue onwards.

So practically, the passing sections would have to span 2 or 3 stations. If you fit that template to the Unionville line, you run out of room.

- Paul

 

[M II A II R II K]

Sounds like it would be complicated enough with both GO local and express routes to start off with, without adding more on the same tracks.

 

[ssiguy2]

I think SmartTrack is going to wind up as "The act of riding a GO train with a TTC fare."

That would be fine with Torontonians. As long as the frequency is high enough, transit users couldn't care less if it's horse & buggy as long as they can take it with their TTC pass.

GO/RER could run every 2 minutes all day if it wanted but it won't result in a lot of new passengers. GO has lousy Toronto ridership despite having by far the best service because it is too damn expensive. This idea of "paying for enhanced service" sounds great on paper but it proceeds from a false assumption............that people have the money to spare.

Until Metrolinx finally gets the message that going from A to B should be the same price no matter the technology, ridership on more expensive options like GO/RER/UPX will remain vastly lower than it's potential.