[robmausser]

Listen to reason? More like dragged kicking and screaming to the point where he had no choice but to backtrack.

The way Tory handled smark track deserves no admiration.

The way metrolinx is handling Smarttrack deserves no admiration.

They are deceiving the public on what is technologically feasible with proper PTC implementations in place on their network, and instead looking at current existing infrastructure to say that its not possible and would need 2 more tracks. Either that or they are too dumb to look beyond their own data.

Let's just pretend that Australia and the UK and Germany don't have 90 second headways between their commuter trains at rush hour.

Typical idiotic bureaucracy, look at current technology and trends to predict whats feasible in the future.

 

[rbt]

SmartTrack = "I built a new station at the Unilever site which was inevitably gonna happen anyway". Please re-elect me.

Welcome to politics. It's not what you build, it's what you can take credit for. Conversely, you can accomplish far more if you let someone else take the credit; giving away the credit is a rapid way to eliminate roadblocks and get cooperation.

Ford even voted against things that he successfully took credit for. Nobody will even blink at Tory over this.


All that said, Tory's real battle is coming. Wynne will not be re-elected (seriously horrible approval ratings; she'll be forced to resign if they get worse). So, Tory will be key to making Brown to keeping GTA RER spending a priority. The majority of elected PCs will want a tax cuts first (drop HST by 1% perhaps?), transit spending later (if ever).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

At the best of times the Tories are ambivalent to Toronto. At the worst of times, they're outright hostile. Which is why I want the City to be granted additional revenue tools sometime before the next election, so we can continue transit expansion without depending on this province.

 

[Tewder]

At the best of times the Tories are ambivalent to Toronto. At the worst of times, they're outright hostile. Which is why I want the City to be granted additional revenue tools sometime before the next election, so we can continue transit expansion without depending on this province.

Not true. Remember the 'red' Tories? Also, I would remind you that Toronto wasn't exactly showered with federal largesse under the last Liberal administrations either. I mean, how much federal investment in Toronto occurred during the Chretien and Martin years?

I do agree with additional transit tools for Toronto though.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Not true. Remember the 'red' Tories? Also, I would remind you that Toronto wasn't exactly showered with federal largesse under the last Liberal administrations either. I mean, how much federal investment in Toronto occurred during the Chretien and Martin years?

I do agree with additional transit tools for Toronto though.

The red tories are long gone, unfortunately. I suppose the party could pivot again, but the way things have been going at the PCs, a PC win would be very bad news for our city.

I do agree with your comment regarding the federal liberals. I'd extend that assessment to the provincial liberals as well. They've been completely unable to meet Toronto's capital and operational funding needs, and they're the most Toronto-Friendly party. Which is another reason why Toronto needs proper revenue tools, since the City of Toronto seems to have outgrown the province's ability to adequately support it.

 

[Palma]

He wasn't willing to listen during the campaign though. How much should we respect someone who backtracks on a promise made to get votes when more coherent plans were poohpoohed as insufficiently ambitious?

this article is nothing new, We all knew this from that febc council meeting

 

[Palma]

The way metrolinx is handling Smarttrack deserves no admiration.

They are deceiving the public on what is technologically feasible with proper PTC implementations in place on their network, and instead looking at current existing infrastructure to say that its not possible and would need 2 more tracks. Either that or they are too dumb to look beyond their own data.

Let's just pretend that Australia and the UK and Germany don't have 90 second headways between their commuter trains at rush hour.

Typical idiotic bureaucracy, look at current technology and trends to predict whats feasible in the future.

well did they not say that they had not expected a Uber technology when planning UPX

 

[crs1026]

Let's just pretend that Australia and the UK and Germany don't have 90 second headways between their commuter trains at rush hour.

Do you have an example of an express commuter line running the throughput of our GO lines with an ST-like service interleaved into it?

- Paul

 

[Tuck]

The way metrolinx is handling Smarttrack deserves no admiration.

They are deceiving the public on what is technologically feasible with proper PTC implementations in place on their network, and instead looking at current existing infrastructure to say that its not possible and would need 2 more tracks. Either that or they are too dumb to look beyond their own data.

Let's just pretend that Australia and the UK and Germany don't have 90 second headways between their commuter trains at rush hour.

Typical idiotic bureaucracy, look at current technology and trends to predict whats feasible in the future.

Isn't much of whats possible dependent on Union Station?

I'd give this a read.

Basically, there is physically enough space on the rail tracks by Union station, but the tracks themselves are arranged poorly, leading to one hell of a bottleneck. Plus other reasons like the low platforms and the fact that trains take forever to turn at Union (Rather than passing straight through) and the fact that passengers need to wait down below instead on on the platform itself - all this results in a system that can't mimic those 90 second times you are referring to.

Which... isn't great.

Ideally, if Metrolinx wants to do this right and really make GO RER take off, thats something that will need to be solved. But I don't think its easy, and its not sometimes that the Union Station reconstruction will fix (Stupidly).

So to conclude, on the assumption that the article above is right, it think they are being more honest, and are less incompetent (in this regard) than you think.

 

[rbt]

Isn't much of whats possible dependent on Union Station?

Only if you take it through Union Station.

Tunnels/stations through downtown are expensive (see DRL for estimates) but far from impossible. Of course, the Smart Track budget has come up nearly empty handed from all parties; so much so that basic surface railway corridor widenings was removed as an option.

Tory is paying for Smart Track the same way Ford extended Sheppard Subway. Though, something useful might still come out of it.

 

[Tuck]

Only if you take it through Union Station.

Tunnels/stations through downtown are expensive (see DRL for estimates) but far from impossible. Of course, the Smart Track budget has come up nearly empty handed from all parties; so much so that basic widening railway corridors was removed as an option.

Going through Union was half the idea!

"I mean sure, if you get rid of fare integration, half the new stations, the TR trains, the entire western spur and running the service through union, Smart Track works like a dream!"

The goalposts can only be moved so far before we can't call it Smart Track anymore.

Besides, widening the rail corridor or digging a tunnel when there is already enough space seems very wasteful. If anything the tracks should be realigned, though I suppose thats more disruptive, especially based on how the tracks sit on the foundation by the station.

 

[rbt]

Besides, widening the rail corridor or digging a tunnel when there is already enough space seems very wasteful. If anything the tracks should be realigned, though I suppose thats more disruptive, especially based on how the tracks sit on the foundation by the station.

Building a line entirely underground from downtown to Sheppard (Big-J DRL) is wasteful and expensive to maintain. Putting the necessary 20% of the route underground with a bridge here and there isn't (normally) nearly as costly.

Between Yonge North, Big J DRL, and the original Smart Track proposal we had roughly $17B in spending being considered. I'm pretty damn sure you can get 3 minute frequencies with numerous stations with bus integration on both a straightened Richmond Hill line and Stouffville line for that price (on-top of RER spending); and as a side benefit of being on the surface, ongoing capital maintenance is less than half the price. TTC spends 20x on 60km of subway maintenance than GO spends on 60km of their track; part of that is the frequency of service but a lot of it is simply where it is located.

Union is a liability and crutch as much as it is an asset; a single drop point for all passengers isn't sustainable.

 

[WislaHD]

Not true. Remember the 'red' Tories? Also, I would remind you that Toronto wasn't exactly showered with federal largesse under the last Liberal administrations either. I mean, how much federal investment in Toronto occurred during the Chretien and Martin years?

I do agree with additional transit tools for Toronto though.

Federal government did not see transit expansion as their responsibility though, so it is an unfair statement to make.

Harper is the first PM to actually invest significant money into public transit, and I doubt this was reflection of Harper's ideology so much as it was indicative of the changing times.

 

[WislaHD]

Building a line entirely underground from downtown to Sheppard (Big-J DRL) is wasteful and expensive to maintain. Putting the necessary 20% of the route underground with a bridge here and there isn't (normally) nearly as costly.

Big-J Relief Line is actually very cost-effective.

Metrolinx found the operating costs of the Big-J RL to be $46 million annually, while it is expected to rake in $125 million annually at the ticket box.

 

[Edward Skira]

Harper is the first PM to actually invest significant money into public transit, and I doubt this was reflection of Harper's ideology so much as it was indicative of the changing times.

Changing times or buying votes?