Palma
Senior Member
So how is John Tory going to explain all this to the public?
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
60 years from now we may actually be willing to pay for the corridor widening and upgrades to Union Station to make SmartTrack happen. For now it's just another chapter in the story of Unbuilt Toronto.
salsa
Senior Member
Sanity is prevailing?
rbt
Senior Member
Nope, a lack of budget and an entirely political requirement for express trains. Widen the corridor, shove it underground near downtown and cheer because the ~$4B automated line runs at 3 minute frequencies during rush and provides service from near Pearson in the west to Steeles in the East.
Since we cannot cheaply build 5 track wide corridors everywhere, there is no sanity in using roughly 70% of the 2.5 track corridor capacity (2 tracks plus occasional siding/passing track) for an express train every 30 minutes.
At best 8 minute frequencies for local service with the express train (9.5 trains per hour) versus a potential 2 minute frequency (CBTC + Moving Block for 30 trains per hour) if every train runs with the same stops. Montreal seems to have figured out high frequencies/high capacity service on 2 rails with their plan.
I applaud Wynne's investments into improving GO service but I absolutely hate the express train part of the plan despite the fact that 90% of my trips will use one (Barrie or Hamilton/Niagara corridor).
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nfitz
Superstar
They seemed to be focusing on what was currently being built. I didn't hear a mention of the DRL or Crosstown East either.
The only time that "Eglinton West" was raised too was in response to a question about extending Finch West to the airport. They talked about how Humber College Station was specifically designed to accommodate a future extension. Most of us could have guessed that based on the updated station renderings, but it was nice to hear confirmation of that none the less.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
They did mention RER though
mdrejhon
Senior Member
SmartTrack are just enhancements (infills, frequency) to the existing RER initiative. Whenever you hear RER, you hear SmartTrack too. They're under the same umbrella now.
Many elements are already part of the RER budget.
See Communications Based Train Control (CBTC) -- newly updated April 2016 with videos.
As part of RER, GO is planning on using the same type of new signalling system that TTC is doing to Yonge to shorten subway headways.
This new signalling system is able to shorten headways between trains on the same track, is an $800 million portion of the $13.5bn budget. This provides an incremental path to 3-minute same-track headways.
They need CBTC because it is important for interspersing, say, four different 15-minute services on the same pair of tracks. This is how Paris RER does it (3 minute headways using three, four, or five different stopping-scheme trains), and with a more primitive system than CBTC.
It will probably happen incrementally, here and there, route segments, frequency slow ramp up, but CBTC puts GO on the correct path to behaving like a metro. Like ST.
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44 North
Senior Member
Wasn't aware there's a very brief technical document about the Mtl REM plan. So CDPQ have in fact provided some insight about what they want in terms of vehicles, and I guess station sizes as well (i.e light metro rolling stock with 80m platforms). Since it was discussed further up I thought I'd add this info.
I guess the mods are free to move this post to the appropriate thread (or website), but I still think it's somewhat related to the SmartTrack and RER discussion.
I guess the mods are free to move this post to the appropriate thread (or website), but I still think it's somewhat related to the SmartTrack and RER discussion.
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robmausser
Senior Member
No! Get out of here with your logic and facts! Smarttrack is DEAD I tells ya! And so is John Tory! Long live our true mayor Olivia Chow! /s
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I'm no mod, but discussion of Montreal's proposal should ideally go to the new thread, while discussion of comparing the Montreal proposal to RER or SmartTrack in Toronto (along with competition for Federal funding) should remain in this/other appropriate threads.
nfitz
Superstar
I can't think of another example of the feds ever funding anything major in Montreal for transit before. Yet in Toronto they've provided funding for the Spadina subway extension, Scarborough subway extension, Sheppard East LRT, Union-Pearson, and the Union Station renovations.
And there's a large pool of new federal money that hasn't been assigned yet.
And there's a large pool of new federal money that hasn't been assigned yet.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
And to build all that in just 3 years.
nfitz
Superstar
Nothing is getting built in 3 years. It's Montreal. They lie. I'm not sure why people here keep falling for this, year after year.