[innsertnamehere]

thought I would make a geographically accurate map of Smart Track and show the modifications that I think should be made to the line to fix the station location issues it has.

First, the "plan" (very vague) as it exists today:

Alone

In the context of other transit. I have included known planned GO stations for GO RER.

Main issues:
- 14th avenue station is located in a rail overpass that is impossible to construct without significant funds which far outweighs the little benefit the station would bring
- Very few stations on the very expensive Eglinton spur
- Cluster of stations in the west end that are duplicates of what the DRL will likely serve in a better way.
- Scarlett / Jane stop is vague on location, presumed halfway between the two streets. Bad location if so.



So I created a new version of Smart-Track that I would like to see implemented.

Alone:

In the context of other transit:

Fixes:
- 14th Avenue station eliminated
- Queen station eliminated, DRL will likely have a stop there to serve it instead, as well as an interchange stop at Gerrard.
- Elimination of St. Clair, Barrie RER will serve the location better and the stops would have been too close together.
- Addition of Islington stop
- Addition of stop at Parliament / Distillery, to better serve the east end.


I also added some GO RER stops, which are more difficult to make out, but I will list them as well.

- New Barrie RER stop at Dundas
- New Barrie RER stop at Wilson
- New Lakeshore West RER stop at Sunnyside to interchange with the eventual DRL
- New Milton RER stop at Jane to serve area, and connect with eventual St. Clair streetcar extension.
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at Dundas to serve Regent Park area
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at Eglinton to interchange with Eglinton LRT, though it would require a long set of stairs down from streetlevel.
- Moved Richmond Hill RER stop from under the 401 to Sheppard to better interchange with the Sheppard subway
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at York Mills
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at John Street


Now, to allow these changes to work, fare policy will have to change. GO fares in the city of Toronto change from $5.50 or so to $3.50, and free transfer to TTC. Just TTC is still $2.70, but if you transfer to GO you are charged an additional $0.80. Smart Track is turned into a GO line and operates under the same fare agreement, with regular priced operations outside of Toronto.

Frequencies are every 15 minutes, except where Smart Track interlines with regular GO service. Stations with both GO and Smart Track get effective 7.5 minute frequencies as a result.

Stations with 7.5 minute frequencies:

Unionville
Milliken
Agincourt
Kennedy
Scarborough
Main
Unilever / Portlands
Union
Bloor
Eglinton

Stations with 15 minute frequencies:

Finch
Ellesmere
Lawrence
Gerrard
Distillery
Spadina
Liberty Village
Scarlett
Islington
Kipling
Airport Corporate Centre

Thoughts?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So on the campaign SmartTrack map, they have a stop at Gerrard & Carlaw, connecting with the streetcar there, and one at the existing GO station south of Main & Danforth.

Would you guys add another station between those two? Would you add one on the west between Liberty Village and Dundas West? If so, where? (and why)

I wouldn't use that map as a reference. Clearly the only thought that was put into the map was, "what is politically convient for us".

In general, I feel like there needs to be less stations in Scarb and more stations elsewhere in the city. Also, delete the stations on Eglinton West. There is no reason to have underground subway stations on Eglinton West, west of Mt. Dennis.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

thought I would make a geographically accurate map of Smart Track and show the modifications that I think should be made to the line to fix the station location issues it has.

First, the "plan" (very vague) as it exists today:

Alone

In the context of other transit. I have included known planned GO stations for GO RER.

Main issues:
- 14th avenue station is located in a rail overpass that is impossible to construct without significant funds which far outweighs the little benefit the station would bring
- Very few stations on the very expensive Eglinton spur
- Cluster of stations in the west end that are duplicates of what the DRL will likely serve in a better way.
- Scarlett / Jane stop is vague on location, presumed halfway between the two streets. Bad location if so.



So I created a new version of Smart-Track that I would like to see implemented.

Alone:

In the context of other transit:

Fixes:
- 14th Avenue station eliminated
- Queen station eliminated, DRL will likely have a stop there to serve it instead, as well as an interchange stop at Gerrard.
- Elimination of St. Clair, Barrie RER will serve the location better and the stops would have been too close together.
- Addition of Islington stop
- Addition of stop at Parliament / Distillery, to better serve the east end.


I also added some GO RER stops, which are more difficult to make out, but I will list them as well.

- New Barrie RER stop at Dundas
- New Barrie RER stop at Wilson
- New Lakeshore West RER stop at Sunnyside to interchange with the eventual DRL
- New Milton RER stop at Jane to serve area, and connect with eventual St. Clair streetcar extension.
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at Dundas to serve Regent Park area
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at Eglinton to interchange with Eglinton LRT, though it would require a long set of stairs down from streetlevel.
- Moved Richmond Hill RER stop from under the 401 to Sheppard to better interchange with the Sheppard subway
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at York Mills
- New Richmond Hill RER stop at John Street


Now, to allow these changes to work, fare policy will have to change. GO fares in the city of Toronto change from $5.50 or so to $3.50, and free transfer to TTC. Just TTC is still $2.70, but if you transfer to GO you are charged an additional $0.80. Smart Track is turned into a GO line and operates under the same fare agreement, with regular priced operations outside of Toronto.

Frequencies are every 15 minutes, except where Smart Track interlines with regular GO service. Stations with both GO and Smart Track get effective 7.5 minute frequencies as a result.

Stations with 7.5 minute frequencies:

Unionville
Milliken
Agincourt
Kennedy
Scarborough
Main
Unilever / Portlands
Union
Bloor
Eglinton

Stations with 15 minute frequencies:

Finch
Ellesmere
Lawrence
Gerrard
Distillery
Spadina
Liberty Village
Scarlett
Islington
Kipling
Airport Corporate Centre

Thoughts?

Regarding Eglinton West, I'd either expropriate the properties along Richview and build the stations at-grade in that corridor, or move the stations North to the rail corridor. As you've configured it this would be obscenely expensive to construct.

Expropriating the properties shouldnt be too big of a deal. Not much has been constructed there yet. However, it's unfortunate that we'd have to do it so soon after selling the properties on the corridor. I believe we can thank the Ford bros and build Toronto for that.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Eglinton will likely be elevated, if it happens. There isn't enough of a ROW for a surface line any longer, but you only need a couple of meters for an elevated line (space to fit the piers), which there is space. Remember that Eglinton has a bike path along it. The ROW appears to be around 40 meters, while the road only needs 30 or so of that.

Note the large grass median between the road and the sidewalk as well as the soft shoulders along the road, which have never been replaced with curbs due to the large ROW and the now cancelled plans to turn it into an expressway. Heck, it might even be wide enough to fit a trenched ROW on the surface for Eglinton.

 

[WislaHD]

Insertnamehere, that is fantastic and incredibly well thought out!

Regarding Eglinton West, I think we all agree it isn't the best route but if it reaches the airport, the airport industrial lands, and in a future expansion reaches Square One (or above it on Eglinton) in Mississauga, then it may well be worthwhile.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Eglinton will likely be elevated, if it happens. There isn't enough of a ROW for a surface line any longer, but you only need a couple of meters for an elevated line (space to fit the piers), which there is space. Remember that Eglinton has a bike path along it. The ROW appears to be around 40 meters, while the road only needs 30 or so of that.

Note the large grass median between the road and the sidewalk as well as the soft shoulders along the road, which have never been replaced with curbs due to the large ROW and the now cancelled plans to turn it into an expressway. Heck, it might even be wide enough to fit a trenched ROW on the surface for Eglinton.

There isn't enough room, but couldn't it be expropoated? IIRC, constriction just recently started on the corridor, so hopefully there wouldnt be too much demolition.

Anyways if this thing is at grade/trenched where possible, and elevated elsewhere, I'll be happy. I recall that last year I actually made a fantasy map showing the possible grades for a Eglinton West RT line.

Putting this thing underground would be an enormous waste of money, in my opinion.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

What are th benefits of building this RT line on Eglinton West, as opposed to the rail corridor to the North?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Took a deeper look at whether Eglinton can in fact fit a trenched Smart Track, and it may be possible, even if it ends up being a little tight.

Looking at other double track underpasses for mainline rail trackage elsewhere in the GTA (Specifically the Stouffville GO lines structure for passing under CN's bypass tracks and 14th avenue in Markham), it appears that for a trenched track to be constructed, you need 12 meters of ROW. Presuming a 40 meter ROW, which is conservative as this stretch of Eglinton seems to vary between 45 and 50 meters, the line will fit. Stations shouldn't be a problem as there are large unused sections of property at all proposed locations, including a theoretical Islington stop. Even if stations took an addition 20 meters of ROW, it would be issue free.

Some of the dimensions are tight, I will admit (landscaping buffers around the trench, bike lanes, sidewalks), but if you widen it to 45 meters for what appears to be the true ROW width of Eglinton, you would have plenty of space to fit those.

Now, for the the proof:

 

[mdrejhon]

What are th benefits of building this RT line on Eglinton West, as opposed to the rail corridor to the North?

Eglington passes near Mississauga Square One.

Tory already knows, you can bank on it.
It is only a 7km extension of the spur, for the Tory 2018 or Tory 2022 campaign.
Dedicated right-of-way rail from Scarb downtown to Mississauga downtown.
Brilliant politics.

My main concern: Corridor usage efficiency. Just make sure it's up to full GO RER capacity specs. Maybe use the Paris electric bilevel RER trains. They push more total people more frequently down the line than the GO Lakeshore line.

 

[innsertnamehere]

why would Tory campaign on an extension into the depths of Mississauga? That would be for Mississauga to deal with, and they will likely prefer to just keep their Transitway, though that may change. It is also 10km to Square One from Smart-Tracks proposed terminus (presumably Renforth Gateway). Travel time end to end of Smart-Track will likely well exceed an hour, and will be approaching an hour and a half if you add an extension to Square One as well, so that sort of end to end use might not be too useful.

main advantage is the access to the Airport Corporate centre, Renforth Gateway, access to Transitway buses, and just general improved rail coverage. Whether it is worth the extra cash to construct (depends on the complications, likely), is another question.

 

[WislaHD]

why would Tory campaign on an extension into the depths of Mississauga? That would be for Mississauga to deal with, and they will likely prefer to just keep their Transitway, though that may change.

He didn't campaign on it, but it may have had an influence on its Eglinton West routing. The mayor of Mississauga endorsed Tory and SmartTrack (what for?), and it seems Toronto, Mississauga and the province is on the same page on this.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Remember how off guard they were when people pointed out that the Richview Corridor is unavailable? The Eglinton routing appears to be a case of poor research.

 

[innsertnamehere]

He didn't campaign on it, but it may have had an influence on its Eglinton West routing. The mayor of Mississauga endorsed Tory and SmartTrack (what for?), and it seems Toronto, Mississauga and the province is on the same page on this.

I realize that, but mdrejhon seems to think that Tory as part of his 2018 or 2022 campaign will propose an extension from Renforth Gateway (already in Mississauga) to Square One (even further into Mississauga). This doesn't make any sense, it would be equivalent of the Ontario Liberals proposing an HSR line from Toronto to Montreal than later proposing an extension to Quebec City. Why would Tory care about an extension into a neighbouring jurisdiction? It is not his job to propose such a thing.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I realize that, but mdrejhon seems to think that Tory as part of his 2018 or 2022 campaign will propose an extension from Renforth Gateway (already in Mississauga) to Square One (even further into Mississauga). This doesn't make any sense, it would be equivalent of the Ontario Liberals proposing an HSR line from Toronto to Montreal than later proposing an extension to Quebec City. Why would Tory care about an extension into a neighbouring jurisdiction? It is not his job to propose such a thing.

He didn't campaign on it, but it may have had an influence on its Eglinton West routing. The mayor of Mississauga endorsed Tory and SmartTrack (what for?), and it seems Toronto, Mississauga and the province is on the same page on this.

This is a logical explanation, but their behaviour during the campaign suggests that they researched the route poorly.

 

[WislaHD]

I realize that, but mdrejhon seems to think that Tory as part of his 2018 or 2022 campaign will propose an extension from Renforth Gateway (already in Mississauga) to Square One (even further into Mississauga). This doesn't make any sense, it would be equivalent of the Ontario Liberals proposing an HSR line from Toronto to Montreal than later proposing an extension to Quebec City. Why would Tory care about an extension into a neighbouring jurisdiction? It is not his job to propose such a thing.

Good point, though one thing that comes immediately to mind would be the 2018 provincial elections (and Mississauga too, though incumbent advantage makes it barely noteworthy). Creating political goodwill, you rub my back, i'll rub yours, perhaps?

@Tigermaster, it means they researched the feasibility of the route poorly.