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So you don't see a problem with Tory agreeing to pay for the O&M of LRT lines (previously paid for by the province) in exchange of capital cash for Smarttrack???

It never says in the article its for capital construction costs for Smarttrack. Its my understanding the city in on the hook for the 6 stations.

My assumption is for the Scarborough Subway. The province has already stated their contributions towards Smarttrack is the GO RER expansion, which Smarttrack depends on, but was already being planned by the province.

Show me where someone is quoted saying specifically "we cancelled operation funding of LRT lines specifically to pay for Smarttrack and not the Scarborough subway or other transit projects in the city" and then I think the attack on Smarttrack this article is angling is warranted.
 
It never says in the article its for capital construction costs for Smarttrack. Its my understanding the city in on the hook for the 6 stations.

That's extra money the province is investing in the city via Smarttrack that wasn't part of the original LRT plan. Yes the money is on the hock for those stations but the smarttrack component required additional funds, which the province seemed to have made available in exchange of withdrawing from O&M of the LRT lines, putting the city on the hook for additional annual spending.

My assumption is for the Scarborough Subway. The province has already stated their contributions towards Smarttrack is the GO RER expansion, which Smarttrack depends on, but was already being planned by the province.

Initially the 3 stop subway would have had a $1.4B provincial investment and of course, no O&M participation. It was never said at that time that the province would be additionally withdraw from O&M of the LRT lines. It's Smarttrack that made the province seize the opportunity to escape paying for all the LRT O&M, not the Scarborough subway.

Show me where someone is quoted saying specifically "we cancelled operation funding of LRT lines specifically to pay for Smarttrack and not the Scarborough subway"

“I am appalled that Mayor Tory would sell out the future of transit in Toronto just to keep SmartTrack attached to something, anything at all,” said Councillor Gord Perks. “Losing provincial funding for light rail operations sets the city’s transit future back decades and we get almost nothing in return.”

-Toronto Star
 
Have we become this polarized and black and white in Toronto? Find anything against the mayor and attack his whole plan and platform? Can we not be intelligent about this?

"Hell yes, absolutely, and never ever ever" - Gord Perks

In all seriousness, there was never a formal agreement that the province would cover operating and maintenance costs, and given the nature of municipal governments' head of power, any future provincial government would've had the right to offload those costs onto Toronto. And frankly, if the provincial government was paying for this it wouldn't have changed anything for any of the 2.6 million people in Toronto, aside from 23-45 of them who would've had to vote for a small municipal tax hike. Even if the provincial government covers the expenses, the money is coming from Toronto residents' taxes.

Now, here's what does actually change something for Toronto residents - the Sheppard East LRT was postponed indefinitely, and now it's fully funded. RER/SmartTrack/WhateverYouWannaCallIt is also now funded, and so is the Eglinton LRT extension to Etobicoke & the airport. What that means, for most of the city, is that commuting between the inner suburbs and downtown is going to be a lot faster and a lot easier, especially if fare integration goes ahead.
 
Even though SmartTrack is pretty dumb, one thing Tory has done is put more attention on some of these LRT projects which were forgotten back at the front of the pack.
 
Guess where the TIF is drawing from - from tweet by Jennifer Pagliaro

upload_2016-11-8_16-15-58.png


CwxOV2PWIAAtLG6.jpg

Jennifer Pagliaro Verified account ‏@jpags
4. Under questioning from @gordperks, this previously unpublished slide appeared (I screen-capped from live feed)

Now let's ask the question - just what will be the impact of this TIF scheme re: DRL?

AoD
 

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Guess where the TIF is drawing from - from tweet by Jennifer Pagliaro

View attachment 91307

CwxOV2PWIAAtLG6.jpg

Jennifer Pagliaro Verified account ‏@jpags
4. Under questioning from @gordperks, this previously unpublished slide appeared (I screen-capped from live feed)

Now let's ask the question - just what will be the impact of this TIF scheme re: DRL?

AoD

Places that have seen little or no growth for decades are expected to help pay for this shit under this phony TIF financing scheme. Give me a break.
 
Maybe this latest article will clear things up in some respects: (I'm going to post it in full as editing might lose some nuances necessary to get the full picture)
Councillors had some tough questions for city staff at Tuesday's council meeting over the multi-billion dollar funding agreement to pay for Mayor John Tory's SmartTrack transit plan.

The meeting comes after executive committee last week approved in principle the funding deal, which proposes that the city and province share costs.

Under the agreement, the city would pay $2 billion for six new SmartTrack stations and the Eglinton West LRT. That figure is contingent on $1.2 billion in assumed contributions by the federal government, as well as $470 million in assumed contributions from Mississauga and the Greater Toronto Airports Authority.

So far, Mississauga politicians, including Mayor Bonnie Crombie, have not committed to their proposed share of the cost.

The balance of the project's cost — about $3.7 billion — would come from the province.

Council is being asked to approve the plan ahead of a Nov. 30 deadline from the province and before councillors can agree on where Toronto's share of the funds will come from.

In addition to a 2.1 per cent property tax increase, the plan outlines other options for the city to shoulder its share, including tax increment financing (TIF), development charges, tax-supported debt financing and other measures.

'Limited capacity'
Following a short presentation of the plan by city manager Peter Wallace, councillors had several questions for city staff.

Coun. Giorgio Mammoliti asked which transit projects in the report could be funded without the city raising taxes or fees.

"Right now, we have limited capacity to build new transit lines without new sources of funding," a staffer told Mammoliti.

The councillor then wondered how he could be asked to vote in favour of a plan when the revenue streams to pay for it remain unclear, including how taxpayers would shoulder the costs.

He later told reporters that residents should be allowed to vote on whether or not taxes should go up to pay for the SmartTrack plan. He anticipates they will vote no.

"I don't get how you can pay for something without any money," Mammoliti said.

Coun. Janet Davis echoed Mammoliti's concerns, asking Tory during the debate about previous remarks in which he said he would not commit to transit projects when the costs and funding plans have not been decided.

Tory acknowledged that it's not ideal for councillors to vote on a plan before they can consider how to raise revenue to pay for it. But he noted that city staff will issue reports within the next two weeks, at which time he will make clear which revenue measures he supports.

'We had a choice'
During a break for lunch, Tory told reporters that the reason for the tight deadline is the fact that the province has to put out its proposal call to build stations as part of its own regional transit plan. The city saves time and money by piggybacking on that process, the mayor said.

"So we had a choice: we could be in the proposal call and include our six stations [for SmartTrack] and get on with picking someone, or we could be out of the process," Tory told reporters.

He said the plan calls for residents to pay "15 cents on the dollar" of a multi-billion dollar plan, "a very fair deal."

According to the city manager, because tax increment financing can't be relied upon to fund the plan fully, the shortfall calls for a 2 per cent property tax increase if other revenue streams can't be found.

To questions about revenue streams by other councillors, Wallace noted that "the city is starved for transit," which requires significant investment.

Tory said Tuesday he doesn't believe that revenue from property taxes can be used to fund massive infrastructure projects.

"We don't have to rely on property taxes, nor do I think we should," he said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/smarttrack-council-vote-1.3841587

Since there's apparently some misunderstanding as to how this relates to SmartTrack, I'll wait to comment further when The Star et al run stories tomorrow.

But meantime, I can't let this comment go by without retort:
[During a break for lunch, Tory told reporters that the reason for the tight deadline is the fact that the province has to put out its proposal call to build stations as part of its own regional transit plan. The city saves time and money by piggybacking on that process, the mayor said.]
What? There's been *months* to formulate a response to this. I've been counting them down. Del Duca has made a number of statements since (June?) first announcement on the stations that (gist) "Toronto has to come up with half the cost by November".

(gist) "And the dog ate my homework"....Tory's losing it, big time.

Edit to Add: I'm re-reading a lot of this, there's bombs scattered throughout, and here's a block-buster of the type that Pagliaro wrote emphatically about just yesterday again:
4. Under questioning from @gordperks, this previously unpublished slide appeared
"previously unpublished slide appeared".

So let me guess, since so much is unavailable even under FOI requests: Staff is leaking this info, there's a seething revolt going on behind the scenes where Planning and others know a completely different truth than what Tory espouses, and they're not going to be treated like idiots and inmates with gag orders...

I suspect there's going to be a few more 'surprises' as time wears on...
 
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Of course John Tory would say that a plan for residents to pay "15 cents on the dollar" is a very fair. Except there is two things wrong with his little analogy: 1) Toronto tax payers would have been responsible for ZERO cents on the dollar if it wasnt for his shortsightedness on the matter, and 2) We all know that "15 cents" will really turn out to be 30, 35, and eventually 40 cents knowing what happens in with transit planning in this city.
 
In all seriousness, there was never a formal agreement that the province would cover operating and maintenance costs, and given the nature of municipal governments' head of power, any future provincial government would've had the right to offload those costs onto Toronto.
Peter Wallace's graphically enunciating that before Council a few days back took a lot by surprise because it *wasn't* commonly understood. Tory et al had intimated that it would be covered by the Province.

Even if the provincial government covers the expenses, the money is coming from Toronto residents' taxes.
No, it comes from the Province, and that may *include* Toronto taxpayers in a degree of the source, but only a fraction, not to mention that Toronto, under the Toronto Act, has special taxing powers that only a few other areas of the province have. Tory keeps obfuscating on the point, along with a number of councillors, now shrinking in numbers. Tory's jig is up, and there's a lot more to leak out yet.
 
Of course John Tory would say that a plan for residents to pay "15 cents on the dollar" is a very fair. Except there is two things wrong with his little analogy: 1) Toronto tax payers would have been responsible for ZERO cents on the dollar if it wasnt for his shortsightedness on the matter, and 2) We all know that "15 cents" will really turn out to be 30, 35, and eventually 40 cents knowing what happens in with transit planning in this city.
I'm going to be Devil's Advocate on this point, bear with me: The Province *played* Tory knowing how vain the man is believing his own Münchhausen delusions of grandeur.

And he was easy to play. That's one take, and that's just the man himself. Mr Rogers in his own limelight. But what about the majority of Council who believed this without asking questions? You really have to wonder how gullible most are.

Judson Street again, anyone?
Metrolinx challenges City of Toronto over Etobicoke rezoning vote


Allowing homes next to a GO Transit maintenance yard conflicts with the province’s regional express rail (RER) project, Metrolinx warns.

By Ben SpurrTransportation Reporter
Jennifer PagliaroCity Hall reporter
Sat., July 16, 2016
The provincial transit agency is taking the rare step of initiating legal proceedings against the city, over a council vote that would allow townhomes to be built next to a south Etobicoke rail yard.

In a dispute that has implications for the mayor’s signature SmartTrack project, the Star has learned that Metrolinx delivered a notice of appeal to the city clerk Tuesday. It alerted the city that the agency is challenging council’s June 9 decision on the Mimico-Judson lands to the Ontario Municipal Board.

The notice asserts that council’s decision to redesignate a strip of land north of GO Transit’s Willowbrook rail yard as “mixed use” was made contrary to provincial and city planning policies, occurred without any public consultation, and “does not represent good land use planning.”

In voting 21 to 15 for the redesignation, a majority of councillors ignored the advice of city staff who had recommended retaining the property north of the rail yard as employment lands, which permit industrial, commercial and institutional use.

Metrolinx officials had also warned that allowing homes next to Willowbrook would limit the agency’s ability to expand activity at the rail yard to accommodate its regional express rail (RER) project.

Although Mayor John Tory’s SmartTrack plan is a part of RER, Tory voted in favour of the mixed-use designation.

Asked about the OMB appeal Friday, the mayor’s spokeswoman said in a written statement that “SmartTrack is moving forward, thanks in part to our strong working relationship with Metrolinx and the provincial government . . . These appeals are not unusual, and we will continue to work with Metrolinx as the OMB process unfolds.”

Councillor Gord Perks said that the mayor and his allies “made a terrible, terrible mistake. And now we’re going to have to waste public money fighting each other about it.”

Because city staff are already on record as opposing council’s decision, the city would have to hire outside planners to support its case at the OMB, which would increase legal costs, Perks said. He added that it’s possible Metrolinx could subpoena the city’s own planners to make the agency’s case.

“This is one of the dumbest planning decisions I’ve seen in my career,” he said. [...]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/smarttrack-council-vote-1.3841587

What goes around, comes around. I call it a "return ticket".
 
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Even though we don't have a strong mayor system it seems council has a hard time questioning a new mayors ideas perhaps for fear of not making it on committees or being labeled negative Nelly.
 
"Smarttrack" approved by city council. Two embarrassing things happened last night: 1) Trump getting elected as president, and 2) Smarttrack getting approved by city council.

To put into perspective how ridiculous of a concept this is, it's essentially like having someone buying a house (the province) and you (municipal government) put your hand up and offer to pay for part of the house and new fixtures.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/11/08/toronto-transit-plan-clears-major-hurdle-at-council.html
 
"Smarttrack" approved by city council. Two embarrassing things happened last night: 1) Trump getting elected as president, and 2) Smarttrack getting approved by city council.

To put into perspective how ridiculous of a concept this is, it's essentially like having someone buying a house (the province) and you (municipal government) put your hand up and offer to pay for part of the house and new fixtures.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/11/08/toronto-transit-plan-clears-major-hurdle-at-council.html
Thanks for heads-up on that.

[...]
Davis said that if the province wouldn’t allow a delay “then there’s something really wrong with this partnership.”

“What this says is hold on, we have timelines and processes here too, we are a level of government, and we need to consider this in the context of our budget,” she said.

Davis and others raised concerns about whether tax increment financing, an untested method of tapping anticipated taxes from future development to pay for infrastructure projects, could be used to cover a large portion of the SmartTrack costs, as the approved plan recommends.

They also cited uncertainty around the fare prices and ridership projections for SmartTrack. Neither has been finalized but both are crucial to the project providing the benefits to the city’s transit network that Tory has claimed.

But other council members warned that delaying the vote to next year would cause the province to cancel the deal and it was better to push ahead.

“Remember this — we are not a level of government. The province controls this level, they tell us what the deal is,” said Councillor Frank Di Giorgio (Ward 12, York South-Weston). “They put deadlines on us…They control the nature of the deal we will ultimately get.”

Davis’s motion failed 11 to 32.
[...]
Besides Do Giorgio's comments being tosh (it's the City that got themselves into this bind, not the province) this reeks of amateurish bumbling no matter which way you look at it. And of course, the very slight problem of no financing...I'm not sure whether this is more Goebbels or von Münchhausen.

Desperate people doing desperate things...
 
I am very glad that the Transit Plan got approved and the obstructionists were soundly defeated.

Trump is bad, but fortunately his isn't going to rule our country, even though he can affect us in some ways.
 

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