[Disparishun]

Third, it would be the most expensive GO route to upgrade because it would require an entirely new alignment south of Eglinton, in addition to a bunch of station relocations (Oriole, Old Cummer). At that point, we are spending billions on a route with very low ridership (for a GO line), which can just be better used investing in the Yonge Subway or the Relief Line to Richmond Hill.

Fourth, it has low ridership and the reason is not because of service but largely because it does not take commuters to where they want to go. The regular commute pattern for someone in York Region heading south is to get off the train somewhere between North York Centre and Queen Station along the Yonge Line. Which means, getting off at Union Station is well out of the way.

Well, hang on a sec. I don't think you can say that the RH line doesn't go where people want to. It's a north-south line connecting Leslie-Finch, Leslie-Sheppard, Wynford-Eglinton (future), and Union station. The Finch East, Sheppard East, and Eglinton routes are all extremely busy routes shuttling people to the Yonge line in order to make their way south.

Sure, it would be even better if there were a way to connect it to the Bloor-Danforth line. But the failure to both (a) fare-integrate the RH line with its via-TTC alternatives, and (b) physically integrate the RH line with existing transit (Sheppard's Oriole subway stop, maybe the Finch East bus route, and inevitably Eglinton's Wynford Crosstown stop) just seems like a missed opportunity to offload traffic from the Yonge line and build alternative traffic patterns.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Well, hang on a sec. I don't think you can say that the RH line doesn't go where people want to. It's a north-south line connecting Leslie-Finch, Leslie-Sheppard, Wynford-Eglinton (future), and Union station. The Finch East, Sheppard East, and Eglinton routes are all extremely busy routes shuttling people to the Yonge line in order to make their way south.

Sure, it would be even better if there were a way to connect it to the Bloor-Danforth line. But the failure to both (a) fare-integrate the RH line with its via-TTC alternatives, and (b) physically integrate the RH line with existing transit (Sheppard's Oriole subway stop, maybe the Finch East bus route, and inevitably Eglinton's Wynford Crosstown stop) just seems like a missed opportunity to offload traffic from the Yonge line and build alternative traffic patterns.

The point though is that it costs quite a lot of money to do all that.

Money that could be spent on a Relief Line North and then a Relief Line North++ into York Region.

And it would be a more effective way of doing everything we want to accomplish with the RH line, while also connecting with Bloor-Danforth.

 

[W. K. Lis]

People are commuting where, when and how it is easy. It's why I don't believe all the hand-wringing over business cases about line this and line that and how busy or not they will be. It's like "Field of Dreams". If you build it, they will come. The story on the roads tells us otherwise. If no one was going anywhere, there would not be GTA-wide gridlock - and that is not an exaggeration - seven days a week.

I personally believe that if all-day two way (with appropriate grade separations and journey times) and Relief Line opened tomorrow, they'd be busy from the get go.

Might be even more crowded with self-driving cars going around and around and around and around and around and around...

 

[robmausser]

Well, hang on a sec. I don't think you can say that the RH line doesn't go where people want to. It's a north-south line connecting Leslie-Finch, Leslie-Sheppard, Wynford-Eglinton (future), and Union station. The Finch East, Sheppard East, and Eglinton routes are all extremely busy routes shuttling people to the Yonge line in order to make their way south.

Sure, it would be even better if there were a way to connect it to the Bloor-Danforth line. But the failure to both (a) fare-integrate the RH line with its via-TTC alternatives, and (b) physically integrate the RH line with existing transit (Sheppard's Oriole subway stop, maybe the Finch East bus route, and inevitably Eglinton's Wynford Crosstown stop) just seems like a missed opportunity to offload traffic from the Yonge line and build alternative traffic patterns.

The problem isn't that the RH line doesnt go where people want to. It does.

The problem is that the reason for upgrading exsiting transit (go lines) vs building new transit (subways) is for cost savings and that unfortunately gets thrown out the window on a line that is wetter than New Orleans during Katrina some days.

The line sadly needs a lot of money to fix the flooding issues, and thus the cost of using it for a "subway replacement" is about the same as actually building a subway line extension of the DRL.

Would have been a good solution, if it wasn't in the situation it is.

Electrifying the line turns this already dangerous situation

Into a human BBQ situation.

 

[micheal_can]

Have you read the platform??

Nope, but if it is anything like the last one which included "fire 100,000 provincial workers" I doubt I would waste my time.

 

[44 North]

The problem isn't that the RH line doesnt go where people want to. It does.

The problem is that the reason for upgrading exsiting transit (go lines) vs building new transit (subways) is for cost savings and that unfortunately gets thrown out the window on a line that is wetter than New Orleans during Katrina some days.

The line sadly needs a lot of money to fix the flooding issues, and thus the cost of using it for a "subway replacement" is about the same as actually building a subway line extension of the DRL.

Would have been a good solution, if it wasn't in the situation it is.

Electrifying the line turns this already dangerous situation

Into a human BBQ situation.

I think the flooding issue gets a bit blown out of proportion at times. Obviously the line couldn't be electrified yet, but that was never planned and not needed anyway. Nor new stations every few km. One of the biggest benefits of electrification is acceleration, and the time savings brought about when making frequent stops. But with a mostly express service that's not so much an issue, and diesel is still very attractive. Flood-wise it happens for a few hours once every few years, which is much less of a service disruption than the suicides, auto collisions, or criminal investigations on other lines. And there will be two other services sharing much of the flood-prone section (Pickering and Havelock), tho like other parts of Metrolinx's new plan they've been dropped for reasons unknown.

 

[robmausser]

I think the flooding issue gets a bit blown out of proportion at times. Obviously the line couldn't be electrified yet, but that was never planned and not needed anyway. Nor new stations every few km. One of the biggest benefits of electrification is acceleration, and the time savings brought about when making frequent stops. But with a mostly express service that's not so much an issue, and diesel is still very attractive. Flood-wise it happens for a few hours once every few years, which is much less of a service disruption than the suicides, auto collisions, or criminal investigations on other lines. And there will be two other services sharing much of the flood-prone section (Pickering and Havelock), tho like other parts of Metrolinx's new plan they've been dropped for reasons unknown.

I could see a use case for having some DMU's on the RH line instead of electrifying, yes.

Run them on the CPR Don Branch and add the stations highlighted in the Metrolinx report. (north of gerrard) to Langstaff Station.

Continue to use the regular route as express service with the current bi-levels.

 

[crs1026]

DMU's on the Don Branch with stops at Eglinton and Lawrence would be an interesting alternative to DRL long..... much cheaper. A duckunder CP at Leaside is the only big ticket expense. The political cost of reopening the old CN Leaside Branch might be the showstopper, but if the line was routed alongside the CP as far as Lawrence, it might capture some Crosstown to downtown traffc and resolve some of the issues around losing the SRT.

If that route took even 1,000 pph off Line 1, it might actually be worth the (modest) cost.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

Its not hence the massive discussion and new thread regarding primarily just the PC platform.

I am sorry, but after the Harris "Common Sense Revolution" that brought us things like a private extortion called Highway 407 and the amalgamation of all of our beautiful cities, and the cancelling of Eglinton Subway, I cannot vote for a PC.

And then there is the mess that Harper did. So, conservatives are also on my black list.

Now, if they get elected, and if they prove that they actually are doing good for the province/country, then I might vote for them the following election.

I am like that for all parties. Sadly I remember Rae Days, and now the boondoggle of the McGinty/Wynne years. Between the 3 parties, they have pissed me off to the point that I wills there was a 4th party that would not destroy us.... Sadly, that does not exist.

 

[sixrings]

I too share in the skepticism. It is easy to make promises but delivering is always the issue. Also knowing politicians we all know some make promises with actually no intent on ever delivering but delaying, delaying, and more delaying. As much as I am frustrated with the current government personally I would rather give the current government more time to finish what they started than to have a new one come in cancel certain things and start other ones. If the PCs win and they deliver I will vote for them again. But if not I will vote again Liberal.

 

[ssiguy2]

As noted earlier, maybe ST is more of an idea than physical infrastructure but it is still a great idea and Tory should take credit for it. Without the idea, RER would have remained a glorified commuter system of little use to Torontonians themselves just like it is today. ST brought to the forefront the idea that RER should also serve Torontonians and be offered at a TTC price and not a GO one which hundred of thousands can't afford. He MADE the province view RER as a deal that was going to be good for Toronto and not just a 905 shuttle that happens to go by more frequently. ST has helped bring QP to the realization that RER must be just as good for the 416 as it is for the 905.

If this is all that ST ends up being then it can be considered a huge success and one that improve life for Toronto commuters for decades to come. Tory's demand of ST MADE Metrolinx and QP change the conversation and priorities and often that's half the battle.

 

[aquateam]

And then there is the mess that Harper did. So, conservatives are also on my black list.

What mess, exactly, did Harper do? Honestly the only scandal I can think of is Mike Duffy, which is complicated and debatable and ultimately involves less than a quarter of the amount of money that Trudeau spends on a single budget report cover.

As noted earlier, maybe ST is more of an idea than physical infrastructure but it is still a great idea and Tory should take credit for it. Without the idea, RER would have remained a glorified commuter system of little use to Torontonians themselves just like it is today. ST brought to the forefront the idea that RER should also serve Torontonians and be offered at a TTC price and not a GO one which hundred of thousands can't afford. He MADE the province view RER as a deal that was going to be good for Toronto and not just a 905 shuttle that happens to go by more frequently. ST has helped bring QP to the realization that RER must be just as good for the 416 as it is for the 905.

If this is all that ST ends up being then it can be considered a huge success and one that improve life for Toronto commuters for decades to come. Tory's demand of ST MADE Metrolinx and QP change the conversation and priorities and often that's half the battle.

SmartTrack is basically the idea that the City should pay $2 billion of its own money for something that the Province was going to do anyway.

 

[micheal_can]

What mess, exactly, did Harper do? Honestly the only scandal I can think of is Mike Duffy, which is complicated and debatable and ultimately involves less than a quarter of the amount of money that Trudeau spends on a single budget report cover.

SmartTrack is basically the idea that the City should pay $2 billion of its own money for something that the Province was going to do anyway.

You don't pay for your bills by selling the furniture. He cut services to veterans. (Which directly affected me.) He sold off shares of GM that was making the government money. Do I really need to get into the long argument of how bad he really was? He was Canada's Trump.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

You don't pay for your bills by selling the furniture. He cut services to veterans. (Which directly affected me.) He sold off shares of GM that was making the government money. Do I really need to get into the long argument of how bad he really was? He was Canada's Trump.

Let us not resort to that. I am no fan of Harper or the Cons and much of what they did while in office, but he was not Canada's Trump, and any comparison to Trump is a disservice to the integrity of our democracy. Remember, we have a British style of parliament, where we actually have to care about the quality of our opposition parties as they need to be ready to take office at a moment's notice. Importing any sort of American-style political polarization would be devastating to our democracy.

Not to mention that their politics are radically different. Harper was even one of the first international public persons to denounce Trump, in his first public appearance post-election.

 

[nfitz]

Have you read the platform??

The one that has no mention of electrification, and only promises to complete the two-way, all-day GO train service (for which must of the capital expenses have already been spent or contracted), and make no mention of the RER service?