[smallspy]

Not that I'm saying you're wrong -- I wasn't in the city at the time -- but the Star article that I linked, written a week before the opening of the line in 1997, says that "streetcars will have exclusive right-of-way only during morning and evening rush hours", and has a quote from TTC chair Paul Christie lamenting that "the streetcar will not have a dedicated right-of-way". Is this just wrong, or did the plans change in the intervening week?

I'm frankly, or at least was, inclined to believe that Ms. Murray was wrong in her article - newspapers being factually inaccurate is hardly a modern phenomenon - but the quote from Mr. Christie is more than a bit confusing. I was down on Spadina a lot before and after the construction, and at no time was the ROW not for the exclusive use of TTC vehicles. It may not have been particularly well enforced or delineated, but the signage and markings were there.

If this is the case, then I guess we should expect to see lane markings appearing on the St. Clair ROW too?

Considering the sheer number of cars that mistakenly turn onto it, I would expect them sooner rather than later.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[car4041]

I'm frankly, or at least was, inclined to believe that Ms. Murray was wrong in her article - newspapers being factually inaccurate is hardly a modern phenomenon - but the quote from Mr. Christie is more than a bit confusing. I was down on Spadina a lot before and after the construction, and at no time was the ROW not for the exclusive use of TTC vehicles. It may not have been particularly well enforced or delineated, but the signage and markings were there.

I've also noticed that the faint lane markings in the ROW only exist south of College, which is also the section that was said to have originally been non-exclusive. North of Spadina Crescent there don't appear to have ever been any lane markings on the ROW. It does seem to jive with the section south of College being originally meant for shared use. Maybe this was the plan, but the powers that be realized at the last minute that it would be foolish?

Also, I'm not sure if the newly repainted lane markings actually help to delineate the ROW. The main thing that a left-turning driver will see is the bright yellow centre line, which, if anything, makes it look *more* like a regular traffic lane rather than less. (You won't see the white diamonds until after you've already turned onto the ROW.) If they were painting diagonal stripes on the ROW at intersections, I could understand it, because those clearly say "don't drive here", but regular lane markings? I dunno...

I have to wonder if it's not just a case of "oh look, those markings are really faded, guess we'd better repaint them", rather than any higher purpose...

 

[junctionist]

The problem of unfamiliar drivers mistakenly entering the ROW could be solved with a special pavement that is clearly different from the roadway. The status quo--grey concrete--is used both for ROWs and around the tracks in mixed-traffic lanes. That it's stamped for the ROWs (was?) is too subtle. We're teased with photos of cities beautifying their ROWs with grass and stone pavers, but those efforts represent practical solutions to differentiating the space from the roadway for cars and avoiding such incidents. While we're at it, not everyone who visits the city understands what "transit signal" means, so we should use those transit signals with unique symbols for streetcars to avoid confusion. Black traffic signals for streetcars as opposed to yellow is another distinction that is too subtle.

 

[Jonny5]

While we're at it, not everyone who visits the city understands what "transit signal" means, so we should use those transit signals with unique symbols for streetcars to avoid confusion. Black traffic signals for streetcars as opposed to yellow is another distinction that is too subtle.

To add to this, there are many drivers who visit this city and don't know, remember or understand they can't pass streetcars with open doors. It would be nice if there could be a sign on each of the downtown expressway off-ramps reminding people of this.

 

[Nobina]

The problem of unfamiliar drivers mistakenly entering the ROW could be solved with a special pavement that is clearly different from the roadway. The status quo--grey concrete--is used both for ROWs and around the tracks in mixed-traffic lanes. That it's stamped for the ROWs (was?) is too subtle. We're teased with photos of cities beautifying their ROWs with grass and stone pavers, but those efforts represent practical solutions to differentiating the space from the roadway for cars and avoiding such incidents. While we're at it, not everyone who visits the city understands what "transit signal" means, so we should use those transit signals with unique symbols for streetcars to avoid confusion. Black traffic signals for streetcars as opposed to yellow is another distinction that is too subtle.

Europeans have much better signage to resolve these issues:

No cars.

Streetcar lane. No regular traffic.

Streetcar lane ends. Regular traffic can drive on streetcar tracks..

We could easily adapt these to our signage standards - i.e. white background.

Transit signals. (Reposted from one of my earlier posts.)

 

[dowlingm]

The problem of unfamiliar drivers mistakenly entering the ROW could be solved with a special pavement that is clearly different from the roadway. The status quo--grey concrete--is used both for ROWs and around the tracks in mixed-traffic lanes. That it's stamped for the ROWs (was?) is too subtle. We're teased with photos of cities beautifying their ROWs with grass and stone pavers, but those efforts represent practical solutions to differentiating the space from the roadway for cars and avoiding such incidents. While we're at it, not everyone who visits the city understands what "transit signal" means, so we should use those transit signals with unique symbols for streetcars to avoid confusion. Black traffic signals for streetcars as opposed to yellow is another distinction that is too subtle.

If the concrete was milled somehow to create an uncomfortable vibration for small vehicles, at least in the area where drivers would be changing lanes, perhaps that would alert them that they're "doing it wrong"

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Are emergency vehicles allowed to use the streetcar lanes? If so, any solution needs to take them into account. Milled pavement sounds good to me, but ambulance drivers may not appreciate it. I doubt fire trucks would notice too much, though.

 

[DSCToronto]

Are emergency vehicles allowed to use the streetcar lanes? If so, any solution needs to take them into account. Milled pavement sounds good to me, but ambulance drivers may not appreciate it. I doubt fire trucks would notice too much, though.

At least on St Clair I think that the centre poles mean fire trucks (and ambulances?) cannot fit onto the ROW - which does seem a bt unfortunate.

 

[rbt]

At least on St Clair I think that the centre poles mean fire trucks (and ambulances?) cannot fit onto the ROW - which does seem a bt unfortunate.

Sure they can; and regularly do.

 

[hawc]

Spadina reduced to two lanes south of King to the Lake. Ouch.

Curious how they're going to rip up the section on the bridge. Can they put a big heavy excavator jackhammer on the bridge safely? What happens when it start jackhammering away on a bridge? I'm really curious how they're going to do this? Seems like they're doing it last of all.

Spring 2013 completion date.

 

[Jonny5]

Can they put a big heavy excavator jackhammer on the bridge safely? What happens when it start jackhammering away on a bridge? I'm really curious how they're going to do this? Seems like they're doing it last of all.

I would think it is no probem. Having travelled several thousand times under that bridge on GO trains I distinctly recall the columns supporting the streetcar lanes are substantially wider and thicker, perhaps even triple the size of the columns holding up the traffic lanes.

 

[car4041]

I would think it is no probem. Having travelled several thousand times under that bridge on GO trains I distinctly recall the columns supporting the streetcar lanes are substantially wider and thicker, perhaps even triple the size of the columns holding up the traffic lanes.

I wonder how much the new track will reduce the noise made by streetcars going across the bridge. Part of it is the howling track, but there seems to be a lot of stuff on the underside of the bridge that vibrates too. Gives you quite a fright the first time you hear it while walking under the bridge!

 

[someMidTowner]

Today:

 

[Jonny5]

Today:

What's up with the shelter? Are there metal crossbars in place of the glass? Why?

 

[taal]

What's up with the shelter? Are there metal crossbars in place of the glass? Why?

Welcome to TO ; - )


Aren't the shelters going to be replaced later when the new streetcars arive anyway ...