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- Thread starter hawc
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Platform 27
Active Member
As I understand it, the stat of relevance for track degradation isn't the total weight per axel, but rather the "unsprung weight" per axel. As came up in this Steve Munro blog post, the new streetcars have lower unsprung weight per axel than CLRVs and ALRVs due to better suspension, which should make them track-friendlier. We'll see, I guess.
rbt
Senior Member
I have read this as well; and it still makes the "CLRV's are too heavy" argument that appears regularly on this forum wrong.
the lemur
Senior Member
I saw some of the work this past weekend from Lake Shore up to Dundas and I noticed that in one part of the ROW there were diamonds (as in diamond lanes) painted on the roadbed. Were those always there?
car4041
Active Member
Yes, there were always extremely faint traces of lane markings (white diamonds and a yellow centre line) in that part of the ROW, which I presume date from when the ROW originally opened. (Here's a random photo where you can see various faint lane markings in the ROW.) However, the markings had almost completely faded away, so I was quite surprised to see them brightly repainted last week.
Edit: I'm sure people here know more about this than me, but it seems that the ROW south of College wasn't fully segregated when the line originally opened in 1997; other traffic was initially allowed to use the streetcar lanes outside of rush hour. After a large number of collisions, temporary barriers were put up, and then curbs were installed in 2000 to fully segregate the ROW (a couple of sources). The initial sharing of the lanes would explain the original lane markings, but it doesn't explain why they've now been repainted, after almost fading completely away.
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the lemur
Senior Member
I don't remember the lane-sharing being allowed, but I definitely remember the collisions! Numerous drivers unfamiliar with the term 'transit signal' making left turns right into the side of streetcars ...
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Too bad the Toronto Public Works didn't just follow what other cities with tram, streetcar, and light rail operators use for transit signals. We continue to use the very same traffic signals for both transit and automobiles. Hence the confusion.
smallspy
Senior Member
As soon as the tracks were completed (and after all other local construction was completed), the lanes were demarcated as transit only and not to be used by private autos. The only indication of this however was signage on some street-side poles and overhead, and lines painted on the ROW. Shortly after the line opened however the TTC realized that they had a bit of a mess, and so they installed those green plastic temporary bollards along the ROW. These were in place until the curbs were built.
As for the lines along the ROW, I suspect that they have found that despite all of the signage indicated where cars are and aren't supposed to go that lines painted on the roadway are the best way to tell drivers that there are no autos allowed.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
car4041
Active Member
Not that I'm saying you're wrong -- I wasn't in the city at the time -- but the Star article that I linked, written a week before the opening of the line in 1997, says that "streetcars will have exclusive right-of-way only during morning and evening rush hours", and has a quote from TTC chair Paul Christie lamenting that "the streetcar will not have a dedicated right-of-way". Is this just wrong, or did the plans change in the intervening week?
If this is the case, then I guess we should expect to see lane markings appearing on the St. Clair ROW too?
Jonny5
Senior Member
I don't think they need to be everywhere, but there are some places people seem to frequently miss what is and isn't a ROW on St. Clair, Spadina and Fleet too.
And as a completely unrelated random note- I was on a streetcar today that had an electronic stop request bell installed. When did those come about?
junctionist
Senior Member
I heard at the meeting for the traffic issues on St. Clair between Old Weston Road and Keele (where the underpass bottleneck is) that Spadina's ROW once had mixed traffic at rush hour in a certain section. Someone had suggested at the meeting that cars could use the ROW between Old Weston Road and Keele Street, which is a terrible suggestion as it would compromise the entire transit operation that is supposed to be reliable and faster with the ROW. Fortunately, the TTC representative at the meeting quickly shot down this idea on the basis that they had something like that on a part of Spadina at rush hour, but it was confusing to drivers and led to accidents and streetcar delays.
drum118
Superstar
Had my first looked at this project today after doing Union Station since it started after I left for Europe and finally finding time to do it.
I see a number of things going to bite TTC at a later date by not doing the work now.
Did some head scratching on a few things and would like to know the reason why somethings were being done while others not.
All the shelters if I remember correctly are receiving a channel at the foot of the columns that are screw to them and bolted to the footing. Some shelters are seeing braces added at the ends while other are not. Some shelters have exist columns removed with new ones added for a wider open and was told this what TTC wanted. No idea why some shelters are seeing this wider opening while other aren't and this could because of high ridership.
Some shelters have new handrail along with new concrete work.
The line is being rewire for pans with most of it in place other than the Dundas and College intersection. Those intersections will be rewire very shortly as the new wire brace system is in place for it. The area north of the circle as well the area at Nassau don't have the new brackets as the clearance height is too low, but the rest of the line has them where the rewiring has taken place so far.
Lots of rail to be replace at the ramp and loop for Bloor Spadina station.
The line between King and Front has the new base, but waiting for the curb to be pour before the track can be laid.
Some work has stated south of Front, but never looked at that area.
I was able to walk from Front St to Nassau shooting photos faster than taking a 510 bus since only 2 pass me when I was at Nassau. Traffic was a nightmare going north with traffic blocking intersection and crosswalk by fools who refused to follow the rules of the road.
Seeing the newly rebuilt intersection for Adelaide St look odd with the removal of the westbound track and switches now after all these years. A piece of TTC history gone.
I thought more rail was being replace, but it was more of a patch work, other than the intersection, circle and south of King.
The idea of using the ROW for traffic south of Queen let alone the system is a huge mistake, as it will totally screw up service 100%. Seeing the HOV marking and the yellow stripping as well the overhead sign is an open invite to traffic to use this ROW.
The concrete for the circle has been pour 100% other than a section to the north of it and the south. It should be 100% completed by Monday.
No photos to be posted at this time, but will later on.
I see a number of things going to bite TTC at a later date by not doing the work now.
Did some head scratching on a few things and would like to know the reason why somethings were being done while others not.
All the shelters if I remember correctly are receiving a channel at the foot of the columns that are screw to them and bolted to the footing. Some shelters are seeing braces added at the ends while other are not. Some shelters have exist columns removed with new ones added for a wider open and was told this what TTC wanted. No idea why some shelters are seeing this wider opening while other aren't and this could because of high ridership.
Some shelters have new handrail along with new concrete work.
The line is being rewire for pans with most of it in place other than the Dundas and College intersection. Those intersections will be rewire very shortly as the new wire brace system is in place for it. The area north of the circle as well the area at Nassau don't have the new brackets as the clearance height is too low, but the rest of the line has them where the rewiring has taken place so far.
Lots of rail to be replace at the ramp and loop for Bloor Spadina station.
The line between King and Front has the new base, but waiting for the curb to be pour before the track can be laid.
Some work has stated south of Front, but never looked at that area.
I was able to walk from Front St to Nassau shooting photos faster than taking a 510 bus since only 2 pass me when I was at Nassau. Traffic was a nightmare going north with traffic blocking intersection and crosswalk by fools who refused to follow the rules of the road.
Seeing the newly rebuilt intersection for Adelaide St look odd with the removal of the westbound track and switches now after all these years. A piece of TTC history gone.
I thought more rail was being replace, but it was more of a patch work, other than the intersection, circle and south of King.
The idea of using the ROW for traffic south of Queen let alone the system is a huge mistake, as it will totally screw up service 100%. Seeing the HOV marking and the yellow stripping as well the overhead sign is an open invite to traffic to use this ROW.
The concrete for the circle has been pour 100% other than a section to the north of it and the south. It should be 100% completed by Monday.
No photos to be posted at this time, but will later on.
taal
Senior Member
I'm very confused, am I reading the dedicated ROW on Spadina will now be an HOV lane the some cars can use ???
DSCToronto
Superstar
No.