[M II A II R II K]

Scrap the SRT and replace it with that I-Metro-E proposal which has a Scarborough Centre detour to it, which of course continues all the way to Union so there's more capacity and a lot less transfers.

 

[innsertnamehere]

innsertrealname:

Except that scenario would probably affect the organization's focus on the DRL - which is THE priority. Plus you will need another EA, re-negotiation with what is likely a very volatile provincial government, etc.

AoD

not saying I agree with it, But rather I was stating that the opening of the final product would likely not be delayed if it were to be transferred to a subway.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I just realized I got your alias wrong AGAIN! My apologies

AoD

 

[ssiguy2]

I think the SRT is gone and Toronto will actually the same size subway system in 10 years as it does today.
1990s........0 subway expansion
2000s .......7 km subway expansion
2010s........2 km subway expansion
Toronto is on a roll.

 

[BurlOak]

Personally Id rather take the extra money it would have cost to build a extension of the BD line and grade separate the Eglinton line so that it could be interlined with the SRT.

Right on. Maybe built a Sheppard East BRT and/or Scarborough Malvern BRT prior to shut down to allow passengers from NE Scarborough to still access the rest of the subway network.

 

[BurlOak]

I think the SRT is gone and Toronto will actually the same size subway system in 10 years as it does today.
1990s........0 subway expansion
2000s .......7 km subway expansion
2010s........2 km subway expansion
Toronto is on a roll.

You are forgetting Downsview Station. That is 2 km in the 1990's. If we ignore the negative 7 km for the SRT, the Spadina Extension is about 9 km.

Toronto is definately in the top 10 in Canada in terms of rapid transit in the past 30 years.

 

[nfitz]

I struggle to believe that it will necessarily delay construction. the SRT replacement is not scheduled to start until late 2015, 3 years from now.

It's completely different pots of money though. The financing techniques the province use require 100% provincial ownership. That's not going to happen for a short extension of an existing subway line. The money available from Metrolinx wouldn't be transferable to TTC. What's more, the money from Metrolinx is mostly to extend from Scarborough Centre to Sheppard. The subway project at a similar cost would stop at Scarborough Centre. It's all comparing apples to oranges.

Another advantage is that if a subway is decided on, it might actually be able to start earlier, and even if it took longer to build it could still be finished around the same time as the current SRT replacement.

That would be an advantage - but it's a mystery on where the money is coming from. Or how they'll extend the life of the life of the SRT another 5-6 years to the early 2020s - it's falling apart.

The more likely scenario is that there is no money to extend the subway, the SRT doesn't happen, and they have to close the entire thing because it's not longer possible to operate it. They've already lowered the frequency this year because of "the reduced capability of the system as it nears the end of its useful life" - and I don't think this is the first time that has happened.

 

[innsertnamehere]

You are unfortunetely correct. I wish they had gone with a subway replacement from the start, but it is unfortunetely too late to switch now. I guess that is what I am trying to say.

 

[nfitz]

You are unfortunetely correct. I wish they had gone with a subway replacement from the start, but it is unfortunetely too late to switch now. I guess that is what I am trying to say.

Honestly, I wish they'd done that too. Probably could have had TBMs in the ground by now ... or at least had the hole being dug and a plan to move Holey and Moley after they finish their final runs later this year. Then they could either run the Eglinton line a bit further down Eglinton to Eglinton GO Station (which would cost that much to go 2.5 km on the surface), or they could turn the corner and run it up the SRT alignment, but keep going to Agincourt station on Sheppard, keeping the existing stations at Lawrence East and Ellesmere (which would have more usage, with nearby Midland station closing).

 

[EnviroTO]

I think Scarborough Centre is the proper terminus for the Bloor-Danforth line but there is no money in the budget. In my opinion Toronto can support 6 lines out of the core heading to the nearby city centres and hubs (Mississauga, Airport, Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham, and Scarborough), and outside of that everything can be handled by GO improvements and LRT (diving underground as required to avoid congestion points or where roadways are thin). If the subway to Scarborough push at the last election had been about the Bloor-Danforth line then I wouldn't have been surprised if that would have gone through, but it was about Sheppard and Sheppard is a money pit that doesn't pay off. The Sheppard subway was built to Don Mills but you don't get the maximum return on what was build without extending it further, but that new money is money that will also not be recouped either. You spend money to convert to LRT tunnel and that money don't get recouped either. Even with the discussion about a Bloor-Danforth extension in council today someone needed to talk about looping to Sheppard. I just can't understand how anyone can call themselves fiscally conservative and think there is a need for the highest transport capacity between SCC and North York. In the end, as much sense as a Bloor-Danforth subway extension might be, the fact that reopening the discussion could also reopen the Sheppard subway discussion means most councillors will keep that door closed until Sheppard LRT is under construction and the threat has passed. The best hope is simply delaying the SRT conversion.

 

[junctionist]

I used the SRT daily this past summer. A lot of people criticize the SRT as dysfunctional and poorly-conceived. I don't disagree that it has issues, but I'd like to acknowledge some positives. For one, it's faster than the subway and its frequency is good for a suburban service. The trains brake smoothly--after a week I realized that you didn't have to grip the pole while the train was braking upon approaching a station like on the subway--it's just that refined. (Though I kept my hand by the pole since you never know what could happen in any train.) The reliability of the trains was impeccable: in the summer months, the trains only stopped on the tracks once between stations, and I never waited more than 5 minutes for a train. Also, for all those who say that the subway should be extended to STC, I noticed that the trains--already narrower and smaller than subway cars--are fairly empty outside of rush hour.

No one ever seems to compliment the style of the SRT stations. Its minimalist modern architecture seems fairly unique for the Postmodern 1980s, with extensive tinted glazing, purposefully and interestingly exposed structural framing, subtle touches of brick, and painted metal ceilings. Seeing Kennedy's penthouse platform for the RT in the morning feels suavely metropolitan as the light pours in and you take in panoramic views of the cityscape around the station. I know that the system has problems with snow, and that some stations like Ellesmere are located in the rail corridor, isolated from the communities they serve and almost useless. But it seems like no one ever acknowledges the unique merits of the system. Some of them are characteristics that we can only strive to achieve in the subway system, like the smooth braking.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Even if the BD were extended which would have more room and no transfer people would still have to sit through like 50 stations on that line and then transfer at Yonge to get to downtown.

 

[nfitz]

Even if the BD were extended which would have more room and no transfer people would still have to sit through like 50 stations on that line and then transfer at Yonge to get to downtown.

They already do after taking the SRT. Would be much faster than it is now. And it's not THAT far from Bloor-Yonge. It's only 22 minutes to Kennedy. So maybe 29 minutes to Scarborough Centre? Compare to the Spadina line, where it's currently 19 minutes from St. George to Downsview - and estimated to be about 31 minutes to Vaughan Mafia Centre.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Eventually there will be a local Lakeshore Line route of some sort so people would get to transfer at Main Street, or maybe transfer at Kennedy to the Stouffville Line instead of the BD if that route gets the same treatment.

 

[ssiguy2]

I think most who hate the SRT would quickly change their minds if they came to Vancouver where they use the MK111 and actually keep the system in excellent repair. Comparing Toronto's SRT to Vancouver's SkyTrain is like comparing Toronto's diesel rail line to Shanghai's Maglev. Even Steve Munro, who would love nothing more than be there for the blowing up the SRT corridor, is a fan of Vancouver's SkyTrain.