[nfitz]

So out of curiosity, what is happening with this BRT? Is it dead or it’s sitting on the heap of unfunded projects?

The mode was never confirmed. In the post above yours, TTC was referring to Pioneer Village station being designed for an LRT along Steeles.

The province's Greater Golden Horseshoe transportation plan from last year, still showed it as one of the 33 upcoming transit projects; not as high as the 12 projects they've committed to (which somehow counts the upgrade of the 5 GO lines to RER-like service as 2 projects, and the Bowmanville extension as a 3rd).

Though with the inclusion in the new plan, of the Ontario Line subway running along 407, I'd think that would push rapid transit on Steeles further down the list.

Sadly, the Ford Government hasn't been an advocate for transit like the last one.

I'd think the opposite. The Liberals talked a good game, with all sorts of promises and announcements. But when push came to shove, promised lines weren't funded and others were delayed by many years.

In it's 4 terms (15 years) in office, the Liberals started 3 major transit expansion projects in Toronto. The Spadina Line 1 extension, Line 5, and Line 6. With completion dates extended for many years on Line 5 and Line 6.

In it's very first term, the Ford government Sstarted 4 projects. The Line 1 extension up Yonge, the Line 2 extension to Sheppard (how many times did the Liberals promise a version of that one?), the Line 5 extension to Renforth, and the Ontario Line subway. Now they've promised the Line 4 extension, and the Line 5 extension to Pearson (though that's almost entirely outside of Toronto).

Meanwhile, the Tories have continued with the expansion of GO services.

 

[micheal_can]

I'd think the opposite. The Liberals talked a good game, with all sorts of promises and announcements. But when push came to shove, promised lines weren't funded and others were delayed by many years.

In it's 4 terms (15 years) in office, the Liberals started 3 major transit expansion projects in Toronto. The Spadina Line 1 extension, Line 5, and Line 6. With completion dates extended for many years on Line 5 and Line 6.

In it's very first term, the Ford government Sstarted 4 projects. The Line 1 extension up Yonge, the Line 2 extension to Sheppard (how many times did the Liberals promise a version of that one?), the Line 5 extension to Renforth, and the Ontario Line subway. Now they've promised the Line 4 extension, and the Line 5 extension to Pearson (though that's almost entirely outside of Toronto).

Meanwhile, the Tories have continued with the expansion of GO services.

I am looking at everything in the province, not just Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

I am looking at everything in the province, not just Toronto.

In the Steeles RT thread?

Oh well, toss in Hurontario then. Province was very hands off both the LRT in Ottawa and the streetcar in Kitchener. Liberals were a disaster in Kitchener, reneging on their 2/3 funding promise for Ion, eventually only funding $325 million of the $870 million project. The Liberals were just as stingy in Ottawa funding $600 million of the original $2.1 billion Confederation line. And that's the cost before the cost overruns, and many many post-opening issues that have been on Ottawa's tab.

 

[micheal_can]

In the Steeles RT thread?

Oh well, toss in Hurontario then. Province was very hands off both the LRT in Ottawa and the streetcar in Kitchener. Liberals were a disaster in Kitchener, reneging on their 2/3 funding promise for Ion, eventually only funding $325 million of the $870 million project. The Liberals were just as stingy in Ottawa funding $600 million of the original $2.1 billion Confederation line. And that's the cost before the cost overruns, and many many post-opening issues that have been on Ottawa's tab.

Sorry. What I mean is that when we talk of how giving each government is, I look at the whole area they preside over, not just one thing or another.

 

[nfitz]

Sorry. What I mean is that when we talk of how giving each government is, I look at the whole area they preside over, not just one thing or another.

I'm still not seeing it.

Liberals may have done advocacy ... but actually giving? Isn't that where they fell flat compared to the Tories? They Liberals only promised $8 billion in 2009 for Line 5, Line 6, the Sheppard LRT, and the Line 3 Scarborough conversion to LRT. And then they wouldn't follow-through on the second two projects, and then they cut much of Line 6, and Line 5 west of Mount Dennis because of "costs".

Ontario Line alone is pushing $20 billion for Phase 1. And I doubt the three primary subway tunnel projects that were recently started, are going to be cheap.

Liberals did very well compared to any government since Conservative Bill Davies in the 1970s. But I don't think that they've either advocated better, or given more, than what we've seen under Ford.

 

[micheal_can]

I'm still not seeing it.

Liberals may have done advocacy ... but actually giving? Isn't that where they fell flat compared to the Tories? They Liberals only promised $8 billion in 2009 for Line 5, Line 6, the Sheppard LRT, and the Line 3 Scarborough conversion to LRT. And then they wouldn't follow-through on the second two projects, and then they cut much of Line 6, and Line 5 west of Mount Dennis because of "costs".

Ontario Line alone is pushing $20 billion for Phase 1. And I doubt the three primary subway tunnel projects that were recently started, are going to be cheap.

Liberals did very well compared to any government since Conservative Bill Davies in the 1970s. But I don't think that they've either advocated better, or given more, than what we've seen under Ford.

Who, between this government and the Liberals did more, not spent more? As in who funded the longest distance of RT?

 

[ARG1]

If we look at a lot of the projects under construction, or finished under Ford, they are all legacy projects from the former Liberal governments. TYSSE, iON, HLRT,,Finch West, and even the Confederation line all were done under the last government. What projects were approved by Ford?

This is a weird hill to stand on. Many of the projects championed by Ford were funded by Ford. Sure they were worked on in some form by the Liberals, but its hard to name a project that wasn't looked in some form by the Liberals. They were the champions of creating massive lists of projects that was effectively the equivalent of an 80s kid circling every product in a christmas wishbook for what they wanted Santa to bring them. For Ford to champion a project that wasn't a "legacy project" from the liberals, would require Ford to go out of his way to build a project that the Liberals never looked at, just for the sake of doing a project the Liberals never looked at.

If we shift the definition of "legacy project" to "Project that the Liberals funded and shovels hit the ground", the only projects that would fit the definition are Lines 5, 6, Hurontario, Hamilton, the remaining VIVA BRTs, and some misc GO projects like Davenport.

The 4 Priority Subway projects were funded by Ford, and looked quite different under the liberals (SSE was a 1 stop extension to STC, Eglinton West was an at grade LRT, we had the DRL instead of OL, the YNSE was basically at the same status as Steeles RT is right now). In fact Eglinton West wasn't even being pursued by the Liberals, it was being studied almost entirely by the City of Toronto, similar to what's happening to Eglinton East and East Bayfront right now.

The biggest project is of course GO Expansion, which I'd argue has had the most progress done under Ford (I'm not a Metrolinx insider, so I can't back this up with evidence), but its worth bringing up just how much progress GO Expansion has seen over the past several years.

 

[nfitz]

Who, between this government and the Liberals did more, not spent more? As in who funded the longest distance of RT?

Longest? I suppose it depends on if you give credit for the Ottawa LRT or the Kitchener streetcar to the province!

And ignore that Liberals had 15 years, compared to less than 5 for Ford.

Tell you what - I'll give you Ottawa and Kitchener for the Liberals, but then divide the Liberal total by 3, to account for how long they were in power. I'll let you do the math.

 

[micheal_can]

Longest? I suppose it depends on if you give credit for the Ottawa LRT or the Kitchener streetcar to the province!

And ignore that Liberals had 15 years, compared to less than 5 for Ford.

Tell you what - I'll give you Ottawa and Kitchener for the Liberals, but then divide the Liberal total by 3, to account for how long they were in power. I'll let you do the math.

... Who knows how long the PCs will be in for. Maybe thye can get more projects funded this term or future terms.

 

[micheal_can]

This is a weird hill to stand on. Many of the projects championed by Ford were funded by Ford. Sure they were worked on in some form by the Liberals, but its hard to name a project that wasn't looked in some form by the Liberals. They were the champions of creating massive lists of projects that was effectively the equivalent of an 80s kid circling every product in a christmas wishbook for what they wanted Santa to bring them. For Ford to champion a project that wasn't a "legacy project" from the liberals, would require Ford to go out of his way to build a project that the Liberals never looked at, just for the sake of doing a project the Liberals never looked at.

If we shift the definition of "legacy project" to "Project that the Liberals funded and shovels hit the ground", the only projects that would fit the definition are Lines 5, 6, Hurontario, Hamilton, the remaining VIVA BRTs, and some misc GO projects like Davenport.

The 4 Priority Subway projects were funded by Ford, and looked quite different under the liberals (SSE was a 1 stop extension to STC, Eglinton West was an at grade LRT, we had the DRL instead of OL, the YNSE was basically at the same status as Steeles RT is right now). In fact Eglinton West wasn't even being pursued by the Liberals, it was being studied almost entirely by the City of Toronto, similar to what's happening to Eglinton East and East Bayfront right now.

The biggest project is of course GO Expansion, which I'd argue has had the most progress done under Ford (I'm not a Metrolinx insider, so I can't back this up with evidence), but its worth bringing up just how much progress GO Expansion has seen over the past several years.

Of those 4 Priority Subway projects, are all 4 funded? It thought only 2 have been funded.

 

[ARG1]

Of those 4 Priority Subway projects, are all 4 funded? It thought only 2 have been funded.

I'm not 100% sure on the YNSE, I think it is? The remaining 3 are, shovels are quite literally in the ground for all of them.

I'm struggling to understand where you're even leading with this, are you trying to imply that you think that projects like the YNSE are empty promises that Ford will never actually end up funding/building?

 

[micheal_can]

I'm not 100% sure on the YNSE, I think it is? The remaining 3 are, shovels are quite literally in the ground for all of them.

.. time to slowly come off my hill....

 

[afransen]

It's pretty undeniable that Ford has been a much bigger proponent of transit infra investment than the Liberals were. With infra in general, the Liberals were a lot of talk, not a lot of action.

 

[nfitz]

I'm not 100% sure on the YNSE, I think it is? The remaining 3 are, shovels are quite literally in the ground for all of them.

I think all 4 have been funded for some time. Lots of contracts awarded, and construction across the city for the first 3.

YNSE (Line 1 extension on Yonge) was deliberately last and slower, because they don't want to open it until the quite complex Ontario Line opens, because of Line 1 capacity issues. But early works are now under construction at Finch station, and the RFQ for the tunnelling has been out for months now.

 

[lead82]

If it wasn’t for the Liberals delaying the Toronto LRTs and posturing to the Toronto city council idiotic debates we would have gotten most of Transit City already built by now. Finch was delayed by 5 years. Scarborough was a mess because there was no vision from the province.

Doug got the subway building. Yes it’s over built but it’s better than the ridiculous 1 stop the city had. The 4 priority projects for Ford are all funded and under construction which will make them harder to cancel later. Also Ontario Line is a much better solution than what the city had, which was a short stub that did nothing beyond Yonge line relief downtown.

I just wish we had the first wave open already - Line 5 and 6. Hoping 2024 will be the lucky year.

Steeles RT will hopefully start to be debated in 10 years once Line 1 Yonge north extension is near opening and Steeles will need better bus service. Until then nothing will happen.