[lordmandeep]

strong morality does not always have to include religion..

 

[Hydrogen]

And that's never stopped the hyper-religious types from condemning atheists.

 

[EnviroTO]

Well we are talking about an ethically homogenous Colorado suburb for the most part, not downtown L.A.

But they killed more than the one person. Why?

What if the statistics collected of those with poor grades, poor attendence and people known to the police just happened to be predominatly uniracial?

Who cares? No matter what race people are if they have poor grades, poor attendance, and are known to police they should be helped. We shouldn't stop or start assisting someone in those situations because they aren't a particular race. That would be racism.

Stereotyping is fundementally wrong, however you're choosing to view Afrocentric schools in a negative connotation. What's negative about experimenting with an oppurtunity to turn around troubled teens of all stripes.

If it is all stripes then it wouldn't be Afrocentric.

I watched the news recently and saw such classrooms already exist in GTA high schools. The focus was on black culture but there noticably a diaspora of students in attendence: Muslim girls in burkas, some teens with dreadlocks and cornrows, some dressed 'street' while others wore buttoned-up shirts.

I fail to see how "black culture" classes help anything. First of all "black culture" does not exist... there are too many countries, languages, and cultures blacks participate in to pretend there is a singular black culture. Secondly, if learning the history and culture of ancestors was critical to success the majority of people in school today would fail (or would pass if everyone would realize that citizenship makes you a Canadian) because the only history widely taught is Canadian history (i.e. the people arriving, the native american tribes, key Canadian political figures, and Canada's role in the war). We don't learn the history of India, China, France, USA, or Scotland in the regular school curriculum. Pretending that learning "black culture", presumably the US version, is somehow going to lead to excellent grades makes no sense at all.

Why should blacks or Asians for that matter always be bombarded with an Eurocentric curricula.

There is no Eurocentric curricula. Nobody learns the history of France, Italy, Germany, Ireland, Spain, etc... only Canadian history. When history says "Canadians did _____" that doesn't say "white", it says "Canadian". When Canadians go to war there are many races because Canada is a multicultural society.

The white homeless problem is a reflection of the bottom barrel in the social hierarchy. Often the bankrupt, mentally ill, drug addicts and gay teens form the bulk of runaways as they cannot cope with society's pressures. There are black homeless too but as in everything they're less represented.

OK, the bottom of the barrel is white? What do you mean black homeless people are less represented? Are you saying there is a whole lot more black homeless people than white people and somehow they are being swept under a rug somewhere? If you walk around downtown streets you can only find white homeless people. I have never seen a black homeless person.

Yes rap/hip-hop, gang culture and the imagery of urban projects has forever tarnished the perception of blacks. This is why I feel a school teaching them something of moral and intellectual substance is better than absorbing values infiltrated and promoted by the white-controlled media.

Pretending that blacks are one and the same isn't going to help. Blacks don't need to support rap/hip-hop or gang culture. They aren't forced. Just like everyone else they can turn the channel. Morals aren't taught at school... they are taught at home. Schools aren't in the moral teaching business. Morals often are tied to religion and therefore schools shouldn't be teaching them. The closest schools should come to teaching morals is perhaps teaching law and the charter of rights.

Yes but is slavery/Aparteid/racism/segregation something that should be continually mined into for the sake of creating a holiday tearjerker? Something as long-lasting and detrimental as black oppression will never go away if we keep reminding new generations that one race was the slave, the other the master.

Germans were once Nazis, Jews were once persecuted, Japanese were once in internment camps, Chinese were virtually slaves on the railway, etc. That is history. There will always be war movies, historical movies, etc. It isn't like movies dealing with black history are the only ones out there. In any case, what will this black curriculum be if black history that deals with slavery is out of bounds? Will black history taught in schools start in the period before Europeans arrived in Africa and before black people were brought to the Americas and the Caribbean?

Yes but in most of those movies he's yeilding a firearm. The association between black men and violence is reinforced if an actor with as much clout as DW cannot get a part that doesn't require brandishing a weapon or being an authoritative figure (stereotype of black men being strict, serious and boisterous all the time).

Pretty sure Coach Carter didn't involve a gun and pretty sure every movie Stallone was in involved violence.

It was just an analogy and a good one. It's not good enough for merely family/friends to intervene there must be a social network too that individuals can fall back on. Again without the word "Afrocentric" attached to the proposal there is absolutely no reason to debate against it.

Correct. Get rid of "Afrocentric" and it is no longer racist. Just like sitting at the back of the bus isn't something to argue about... unless the back of the bus is "Afrocentric".

 

[Admiral Beez]

what you just said simply is just good parenting means better children.

Exactly. Well said, thanks.

 

[Hydrogen]

Except for all the cases of bad kids from good parents, or for the good kids who had lousy parents.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Except for all the cases of bad kids from good parents, or for the good kids who had lousy parents.

Of course you're going to have exceptions. I'm speaking of generalities, not absolutes.

 

[unimaginative2]

Yeah, but you can't develop a policy assuming that kids with good parents will be good kids and kids with bad parents will be bad kids.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Yeah, but you can't develop a policy assuming that kids with good parents will be good kids and kids with bad parents will be bad kids.

Agreed. Nor can we develop a policy assuming that kids who are black will be bad kids in school because they are black. The evidence is telling us that those black kids that are failing at school are doing so not because of their skin colour, but because of other home, stability/poverty and cultural factors.

First, study and correctly identify exactly what specific demographic is facing the challenge (for example, perhaps it's Caribbean black males living in single-parent absent father homes, predominantly from parents originating from Jamaica, or St. Lucia, or wherever, it's just an example). Then, figure out how to deal with it, and then measure the success of the remedy. This will stop non-affected black populations from being included in the program, and thus would allow resources and time to be better focused. There's no point including the succeeding black female student of a two-parent strict Muslim family from Sudan in the same program as a struggling black male from a single-mom in Scarlem.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

What?! The vast majority of blacks in Canada come from the Caribbean isles, most of which are majority black societies.

It's naive to assume someone that comes from a predominantly racially homogenous society will automatically be better adjusted to polyethnic, multicultural life in Canada just because of our 'welcoming' reputation in contrast to other first world nations. The stigma and legacy of slavery is mentally crippling to the advancement of any peoples; the social, economic and political effects of which still plague blacks of the Caribbean and Latin America to this day.

Although colonized, most Africans were likely never called the N-word or told to sit at the back of a bus or denied entry to certain aspects of society. Their drive to succeed comes out of sheer determination to escape war, famine, disease, preindustrialized existences. They are encouraged by their communities to excel, not coerced by peer pressure/ media mad-mouthing/ societal restrictment to drop out.

Please stop using this word Afrocentric. It donates some sort of pan continental value system, whereas a large part of Africa's population isn't even black.

What gave you that impression? National Geographic? This may come as a shock to you, but 70% of Saharan Africa is black, not Middle-Easterner. It's easy for a white controlled media to brainwash society into thinking Jesus and Moses were pale-skinned and blue-eyed when archeological evidence prove everything to the contrary.

Black culture is what you want it to be; many people can be impartial to nappy headed hos, enough so to elevate, not destroy, Don Imus' career (where are Barbara Walters and CNBC to interview Isaiah Washington as one of their Top 10 Influentual?) but one slight of hand from a black figure and their goose is cooked (anyone know who Arsenio Hall is? He bad-mouthed GHW Bush and was literally blacklisted from ever working in Hollywood again). If blacks continue to not defend themselves against this type of slander and instead cultivate an uplifting image, the perceptions of non-blacks will always be to follow stereotypical norms instead of merit one's ability by their character.

Otherwise, what exactly are the positive elements of North American black culture that we wish to integrate into the school system?

How come virtually every other ethnicity has been able to avoid this level of degradation? The problem doesn't end in the classroom, from birth 90% of blacks are guaranteed to suffer some adversity the general population won't. Forgive me if I strongly beleive society's even less progressive and more backwards then it was 10 years ago.

strong morality does not always have to include religion..

Some of the world's greatest thinkers were non-religious !

I fail to see how "black culture" classes help anything. First of all "black culture" does not exist... there are too many countries, languages, and cultures blacks participate in to pretend there is a singular black culture.

And what better way to mend fences and build camaraderie against the various black communities then having them as participants of an united classroom? Surely 8 months is long enough to have a Diaspora studies that'd be inclusive of blacks of all stripes- Jamaicans, Trinidadians, Guyanese, Sudanese, Ethiopians, Nigerians, Congolese, Zimbabweans, etc.

because the only history widely taught is Canadian history When history says "Canadians did _____" that doesn't say "white", it says "Canadian".

Wow 400 years of primarily British/French history with some Natives interspersed only to mention the vast majority of polyethnic contributions to Canada in the last 2-3 weeks of a lethergized History class dying for winter break to begin. I'm sure someone from Bangladesh or Somalia feels really at ease .

Blacks don't need to support rap/hip-hop or gang culture. They aren't forced. Just like everyone else they can turn the channel. Morals aren't taught at school...

Are you serious? Free will and free choice don't go far when everyone and their mother is hammering in defeatest propoganda on impressionable, still developing minds. Like I said earlier blacks do succeed but often at the cost of their social status. If it's easier to sacrifice grades for friends and recognition, adoloscence of any race will do it. Stereotypically smart teens from Indian or East Asian households grew up in a totally different environment than blacks, and as such have a larger network of like-minded peers to prop eachother up. Blacks unable to fit into the Eurasian group or with the underachievers of the black group are hence socially isolated.

It isn't like movies dealing with black history are the only ones out there. In any case, what will this black curriculum be if black history that deals with slavery is out of bounds? Will black history taught in schools start in the period before Europeans arrived in Africa and before black people were brought to the Americas and the Caribbean?

There is a big difference between teaching the subject material in a respectful manner where students have the oppurtunity to debate it and the visceral raping of an entire people's identity to make a quick buck. A half millenia of suffering is imcomparable to any other man-made atrocity ever inflicted upon humanity. Heck I'm sure far more than 350, 000 black slaves were swallowed by the seas than every victim in the Tsunami. Again the media makes a misericordiam out of black protrayals while whites are the saviours.

Pretty sure Coach Carter didn't involve a gun and pretty sure every movie Stallone was in involved violence.

When Jack Bauer or House does unethical things are they still not heroes? Micheal from Lost was a likeable character father figure who the writers decided to make into a double murderer for no apparent reason. This was after a long hiatus of his character. Soon after with much tacked on villany he disappears for good. Please stop pretending like there's no racial bias in the media/entertainment industry because clearly there is.

Get rid of "Afrocentric" and it is no longer racist. Just like sitting at the back of the bus isn't something to argue about... unless the back of the bus is "Afrocentric".

I guess it's better to tackle a problem head on, then pretend it's not there. It's no secret segregation already exists in Toronto schools, it's only those who rarely socialize outside of own their ethnicity that would be unaware of it.

 

[Hydrogen]

Reading these posts, I always have this image of what things will be like twenty-five years down the road should this type of policy be put into place. By then, separate black-only schools will come to be viewed (once again) as racist, and the school board will be condemned for allowing such a blatantly racist policy to be enacted. The pendulum swings again.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Reading these posts, I always have this image of what things will be like twenty-five years down the road should this type of policy be put into place. By then, separate black-only schools will come to be viewed (once again) as racist, and the school board will be condemned for allowing such a blatantly racist policy to be enacted. The pendulum swings again.

i get the feeling that the people proposing this system are racist.

-racists that support such a school because they don't want blacks kids around their non-black kids.

-racists that support such a school because they don't want non-black kids around their black kids.


all this over melanin. people are fucking goofy.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What gave you that impression? National Geographic? This may come as a shock to you, but 70% of Saharan Africa is black, not Middle-Easterner. It's easy for a white controlled media to brainwash society into thinking Jesus and Moses were pale-skinned and blue-eyed when archeological evidence prove everything to the contrary.

Relax, and then re-read what I posted. I said a large part of Africa's population isn't black. I never said the majority wasn't. Assuming your 70% number is correct, then a full 30% of Africa's population isn't black, which is almost a third, and is, as I said, a large part of the total.

What the heck is a Middle-Easterner? Where did you come up with that term? Do you include Arabs from Morocco in that term? Are they somehow less African in your eyes? BTW, the Middle East is in Asia, unless you throw in Egypt, which except for the Sinai, is clearly in Africa.

 

[Hydrogen]

If anyone is interested, Chapter 19 of Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel is entitled "How Africa Became Black." It might help to put some perspective of who (in terms of skin colour and its variations) inhabits Africa and how it came to be that way.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

i get the feeling that the people proposing this system are racist. -racists that support such a school because they don't want blacks kids around their non-black kids. -racists that support such a school because they don't want non-black kids around their black kids.

But by saying that aren't you making the same rash generalizations about me that you feel the TDSB would be making about underachieving black students? My case is that a school catering to a specific sub-group's needs beyond the assistence required by the general school population, academically sound blacks included, should be examined as a preventative meausre to problems later on in life. High school graduates will earn on average $200,000 more in their lifetimes than a non-grad, be contributing memebers of society etc. How is pretending like black issues don't exist going to provide a solution to those isses? Natives get free tertiary education, Muslims can practice Sharia Law and wear burkas into polling stations, Chinese were given a public apology and financial compensation for the head tax, Quebeqois have near autonomy and still determine who will/will not be Canada's PM. If these ethnic groups can be granted special entitlements the general population cannot, why is it when blacks want/need something they are always denied? It's the denial of Afrocentric schools that's racist!

Relax, and then re-read what I posted. I said a large part of Africa's population isn't black. I never said the majority wasn't. Assuming your 70% number is correct, then a full 30% of Africa's population isn't black, which is almost a third, and is, as I said, a large part of the total.

You're misquoting me. I said Saharan or eledgedly non-black Africa has a black population over 70%. That's irrelevant though, people can live anywhere they choose, it's the intolerance they may encounter that concerns me when stereotyping is so prevalent in the media.

What the heck is a Middle-Easterner? Where did you come up with that term? Do you include Arabs from Morocco in that term? Are they somehow less African in your eyes? BTW, the Middle East is in Asia, unless you throw in Egypt, which except for the Sinai, is clearly in Africa.

When you think of Sweden or Laos what's the first ethnicity that comes to mind? I thought ME collectively meant Berbers, Arabs, Turks, Uzbeks, Syrians, Egpytians, etc. North Africa is always thrown into that ethnocentric classification by CNN and government officals.

in terms of skin colour and its variations) inhabits Africa and how it came to be that way.

Doesn't all human life originate from Africa (Tanzania/Ethiopia)?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

But by saying that aren't you making the same rash generalizations about me that you feel the TDSB would be making about underachieving black students?

i get the feeling that some of the people proposing this system are racist.

-racists that support such a school because they don't want blacks kids around their non-black kids.

-racists that support such a school because they don't want non-black kids around their black kids.


is that better. sometimes i type in a hurry.