[Hydrogen]

Oh sure, rather than tackling the problem of bullying why not create a school for the whimps while their at it.

Now that made me laugh out loud. Good analogy.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Oh sure, rather than tackling the problem of bullying why not create a school for the whimps while their at it.

Or create another Columbine . The perpetrators of that school massacre were racist and sought out and killed a black student. Is this the kind of environment we want to teach our youth in? I'm not saying it'd happen here but to pretend that there are not polarizing cultural differences between the races that can cause havoc is irresponsible.

But why is this a black thing. Aren't underproductive white youth in baggy pants an equally important issue? There could be an equal number of youth in the same situation who are not black but because of the statistical game will not get any focus.

It became a black thing the moment statistics proved blacks in general underachieved. Were it another group I'm sure the focus would be equally critical though likely not as controversial given the long history of North American segregation geared towards primarily blacks.

I agree. This does not require a black dedicated school.

I'm sure if every teacher in the TDSB were like Hilary Swank's character in Freedom Writers you'd be right.

Racial profiling is multicultural in theory? Whose theory? By definition racial profiling is categorizing based on race which is not multicultural. Also, a black school is not multicultural either.

You're twisting my words. Racial profiling is an example of the discriminatory practices of institutions that are supposed to promote racial equality and tolerance.

Nowhere close to the majority of asians or white people have cottages in Muskoka.

How many blacks own cottages? How many own the roof over their heads? If 85% of all black Canadians lived below the poverty line and only 15% of the several times larger white/Asian population could afford vacations, do you not think its still disproportionately alienating to the black youth to be status challenged at school?

I missed that press release. Could you point it out to me. If a black person gets a job it is automatically to make whoever is hiring not seem racist or one-sided? So damned if you do and damned if you don't then I guess.

It's called affirmative action. Hit shows like Friends were always criticized for their lack of diversity, despite it multicultural setting. What did they do? In the last season they brought in a black girlfriend for Ross. For the white writers it was merely an afterthought to appease critics. I have a friend who used to work for the CBC. She's originally from Trinidad of mixed white/East Indian descent and in light of the terrorist threat during summer '06 when walking into work with a group of her white colleagues, they were allowed to go through security without showing their ID to guards. She however was hedl back and when asked why they detained her, the guards told her "It's CBC's policy to screen visible minorities pose more risk to detonate us!". She was let go soon after for undisclosed reasons. See segregation is alive and well everywhere, acting like a blacks-only school will further the sentiment is rubbish as minorities can just as easily be discriminated against walking down the street.

Wrongly? Michael Richards, Don Imus, and some new nutball that is in the news now have had their careers ended due to pressure from the black community. So what? These people were rightly held responsible for what they said.

Since MR and DI have had decades to accumulate their fortunes and royalties from syndication of their massively popular past hits beforetheir fall-from-grace, while the glass ceiling has just broken through (and shut) for IW, I take it one suffered far more severely than the others. Don't think racism played a hand in that? Look at the entertainment news. How many demonized celebs are black and how many are white? OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, Jan Adams, the Game, Snopp Dogg, Kobe Byrant, Micheal Jackson, Terrell Owens, Barry Bonds, Micheal Vick, etc. Anyone see a dichotomy? Whites like Mel Gibson are forgiven and Phil Spector and Robert Blake aquitted.

Wouldn't you rather there not be black characters that are Lost, Desperate, or breaking from Prison.

People sometimes can't get into a show unless people that look like them are apart of it. It sad cause people will get up in arms if something bad happens to the black, Asian or Latino character just because their black, Asian or Latino. The whole audience as such are more impartial to whatever fate bestows white characters, as they become "ethnic placeholders" for minority viewers.

Tyra has a successful modelling show. No credit for her? No credit for Ruben Studdard and Fantasia Barrino?

I have no respect for 'Reality' TV, sorry. By the way those two had the poorest record sales of any previous Idol winner, let alone runner-up.

Well if the TDSB creates a black school and it ends up like BET or being the worst performing school in the province-wide tests you will probably be the first to point out that the majority of the school board trustees are not black and the reason the black school isn't working is because of the damned white people.

You're probably right. However if it transforms gang bangers into preppies I'll be the first to congratulate the establishment for finally intervening to save some lives from probable degeneration.

The reality is that a black school is the symbol of racism. How can one claim to making progress on getting rid of discrimination and eliminating racism while creating race targeted institutions?

Because there is no other means of distinguishing the at-risk student from the overachiever. If the majority of failures were Amish or Muslim or attended the YMCA or were vegans or insomniacs, I'm sure the TDSB would find a way to classify the group that didn't highlight the chief ethnicity involved. But the black community is too broad to classify as such so race becomes the simplest way to generalize the problem. Its unfair, yes, controversial, most definitely, but like I said were it whites, Asians or Latinos the classification would still occur. It's only because of North America's long history of segregation against blacks that this becomes such a red hot issue. If school is the only means of socializing a child has, than there are more serious problems to worry about than ensuring they get the best chance at a good education as possible. An institution that values strict discipline, dress code is uniforms and bans impediments to learning increases the likelihood that students will succeed. It can happen within today's system but frankly it s not!

 

[Hydrogen]

Because there is no other means of distinguishing the at-risk student from the overachiever

I find this troubling. Your argument is for discrimination, identification by "race," and strongly suggests an incapacity of many black students to cope on the basis of that supposed classification of race. The school system is being cast in the shadow of racism, and the solution to that supposed stain is yet more racism.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i read somewhere that the catholic system is proposing year round school for some locations. could this help some of the public schools in at risk areas? is this already being done in the public system?

 

[Admiral Beez]

i read somewhere that the catholic system is proposing year round school for some locations. could this help some of the public schools in at risk areas? is this already being done in the public system?

There's a catholic school in Cabbagetown being used specifically for "last chance" students who have failed or been removed from other schools due to "behavioral" issues. The neighbours don't like it as the kids are vandalizing the area, apparently.

 

[EnviroTO]

Or create another Columbine. The perpetrators of that school massacre were racist and sought out and killed a black student.

Are you serious? In Columbine 13 were killed and 23 wounded and because one black student died its racism? I don't get the logic.

It became a black thing the moment statistics proved blacks in general underachieved. Were it another group I'm sure the focus would be equally critical though likely not as controversial given the long history of North American segregation geared towards primarily blacks.

Choosing the skin colour to identify the problem is entirely arbitrary. One could collect the same statistics based on certain types of baggy pants and get similar findings. I seriously doubt anyone would propose a school for baggy pant wearers.

Racial profiling is an example of the discriminatory practices of institutions that are supposed to promote racial equality and tolerance.

And finding a need for black schools is an example of racial profiling. It says "you have black skin so you have an obstacle to learning". It is the same as saying "you are Muslim so you are a terrorism risk". Black has nothing to do with obstacles to learning and Muslim has nothing to do with terrorism. It is simply misuse of statistics. Sure, the odds might be different, but the reality is that we are all individuals. Skin colour or religion alone can't tell you anything about a person.

How many blacks own cottages?

Another question might be what percentage of cottage owners are immigrants or first generation Canadians. I would think that hardly any immigrants or first generation white people would own cottages. Usually each generation does progressively better than the one before it at integrating into the mainstream.

How many own the roof over their heads? If 85% of all black Canadians lived below the poverty line and only 15% of the several times larger white/Asian population could afford vacations, do you not think its still disproportionately alienating to the black youth to be status challenged at school?

Why do you lump Asians and Whites together. People from South Asia, East Asia, Europe, South America, and Central America are the same but Blacks are some homogeneous group which is entirely different? Why are Kenyans the same as those from the Caribbean or Americans when you look at the black population when in reality their history and possibly their obstacles to learning might be entirely different.

I have a friend who used to work for the CBC. She's originally from Trinidad of mixed white/East Indian descent and in light of the terrorist threat during summer '06 when walking into work with a group of her white colleagues, they were allowed to go through security without showing their ID to guards. She however was hedl back and when asked why they detained her, the guards told her "It's CBC's policy to screen visible minorities pose more risk to detonate us!"

You are arguing that that is wrong I hope. Because this school is almost the same with "It's CBC's policy to screen visible minorities who pose more risk to detonate us" versus "It's TDBS's policy to screen visible minorities who pose more risk to fail". The wrong part about it is that individuals are terrorists and individuals fail and it has nothing to do with race.

See segregation is alive and well everywhere, acting like a blacks-only school will further the sentiment is rubbish as minorities can just as easily be discriminated against walking down the street.

So how is further discrimination based on skin colour an improvement? Still seems like segregation to me. Are you arguing that because segregation is all around us that there might as well be more segregation? I'm discriminated against as a black person while walking down the street so don't treat me like a white student who is failing or like an Asian who is failing, treat me completely different... like there is no other alternative but to send me to a special school for those of us with this special problem of dark skin pigmentation?

Since MR and DI have had decades to accumulate their fortunes and royalties from syndication of their massively popular past hits before their fall-from-grace, while the glass ceiling has just broken through (and shut) for IW, I take it one suffered far more severely than the others. Don't think racism played a hand in that?

No. I think some people screwed up before they made money and some people screwed up after they made more. Sometimes hurricanes hit Jamaica but don't hit Florida but it isn't racism.

Look at the entertainment news. How many demonized celebs are black and how many are white? OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, Jan Adams, the Game, Snopp Dogg, Kobe Byrant, Micheal Jackson, Terrell Owens, Barry Bonds, Micheal Vick, etc. Anyone see a dichotomy?

Yep. I see the same dichotomy as Britney Spears, George Bush, Pete Rose, NBA referee Tim Donaghy, etc. They have been in the press getting ridiculed because they are screw ups.

People sometimes can't get into a show unless people that look like them are apart of it. It sad cause people will get up in arms if something bad happens to the black, Asian or Latino character just because their black, Asian or Latino. The whole audience as such are more impartial to whatever fate bestows white characters, as they become "ethnic placeholders" for minority viewers.

Right. Denzel Washington, and Morgan Freeman only have black fans and are easily expendable in the movies they are in getting blown away within the first 10 minutes of the movie. Maybe some people are stars and some aren't.

I have no respect for 'Reality' TV, sorry. By the way those two had the poorest record sales of any previous Idol winner, let alone runner-up.

Because of racism or because people didn't like their music? There are plenty of successful black music artists out there.

You're probably right. However if it transforms gang bangers into preppies I'll be the first to congratulate the establishment for finally intervening to save some lives from probable degeneration.

What do you rank the odds at that putting all the under performers together will improve things? When you put all the poorer families in the same neighbourhood does that tend to create safer neighbourhoods because all the neighbours in the same boat look after each other and being together with people in the same boat they feel less discriminated against. They can walk down the street without running into those cottage having people and that must really improve their lives!

Because there is no other means of distinguishing the at-risk student from the overachiever.

I've got one. Grades and problems with authority.

 

[rpgr]

In response to the above in general....

Why do more black youths idolize Snoop Dog over Will Smith?

To me it's the same answer as to why black schools won't solve a single thing.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What do you rank the odds at that putting all the under performers together will improve things?

It will improve things for everyone else, as a large portion of the troublesome black kids in each school will be removed and sent to the black school, leaving only focused and motivated black students behind with everyone else.

When you put all the poorer families in the same neighbourhood does that tend to create safer neighbourhoods

Yes, again for the same reason. If all the troublesome folks are located in one area, say Malvern or Jane/Finch, then by default this creates safer neighbourhoods elsewhere. We're seeing this with Regent Park, where poor folks are being moved out of the neighbourhood while the areas being rebuilt, and we're seeing crime in the area drop, and an increase in the overall positive feeling of the area. I imagine the folks that have been relocated are now in one large area as you describe.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Are you serious? In Columbine 13 were killed and 23 wounded and because one black student died its racism? I don't get the logic.

Well, it is suburban Denver - that may have been the only black kid in a student body of 2000...

 

[Hydrogen]

It will improve things for everyone else, as a large portion of the troublesome black kids in each school will be removed and sent to the black school, leaving only focused and motivated black students behind with everyone else.

Just the troublesome black kids?

 

[EnviroTO]

It will improve things for everyone else, as a large portion of the troublesome black kids in each school will be removed and sent to the black school, leaving only focused and motivated black students behind with everyone else.

I already understand for everyone else it will be a great plan eliminating the non-productive element from the other schools. I just can't see it being beneficial to the people involved. I see this plan as people volunteering to live like the 50s to solve a problem created by the way people lived in the 50s. Maybe the next idea will be a work program for these youth doing physical labour and perhaps a special section on buses so they don't have to sit with the cottage owning folks which is supposedly very uncomfortable for them.

 

[unimaginative2]

Yes, again for the same reason. If all the troublesome folks are located in one area, say Malvern or Jane/Finch, then by default this creates safer neighbourhoods elsewhere. We're seeing this with Regent Park, where poor folks are being moved out of the neighbourhood while the areas being rebuilt, and we're seeing crime in the area drop, and an increase in the overall positive feeling of the area. I imagine the folks that have been relocated are now in one large area as you describe.

That's not true, because it's not a zero sum game. If you scattered those "troublesome" people all over the city, it may be that they never get into any kind of serious trouble. For many of these people, they only have problems because they're crowded together with so many other people who have the potential to get into trouble.

 

[adma]

In response to the above in general....

Why do more black youths idolize Snoop Dog over Will Smith?

To me it's the same answer as to why black schools won't solve a single thing.

And you might as well ask why more *white* youths idolize Snoop Dogg over Will Smith...

 

[Admiral Beez]

Just the troublesome black kids?

Well, yes, as it's a black school. They'll obviously need a school for troublesome non-black kids as well.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Are you serious? In Columbine 13 were killed and 23 wounded and because one black student died its racism? I don't get the logic.

Ugh don't you know anything? The killers were known neo-Nazis who listened to Death Heavy Metal that promoted white supremacist and rahowa puritanist agendas. Were there more black targets, who's to say what who've happened?

I seriously doubt anyone would propose a school for baggy pant wearers.

Fine then, if this proposal didn't have the words "Afrocentric" or "black-focused" attached to it, whereby anyone could attend, and the majority population of students still turned out to be black would you still think it's a segregatory issue or that some people are just predisposed by circumstance to fail academically?

It is simply misuse of statistics. Sure, the odds might be different, but the reality is that we are all individuals. Skin colour or religion alone can't tell you anything about a person.

I agree, but unlike hunting for terrorists, this is a preventative measure. There might be underachivevers who'll never do drugs or join gangs/terror cells or kill someone but at the same time merely waste their lives away at minimum wage or breed welfare babies continuing the cycle of abuse, class inequality and impoverished existences. If all blacks see is that out of life, where's the drive to want more? Or worse what if that drive is achieved the wrong way through drugs and violence? Again this isn't a blacks-only problem, but stepping in could be the first step to correct delinquency among underachievers of all ethnicities. The point is we must start somewhere!

Usually each generation does progressively better than the one before it at integrating into the mainstream.

Blacks have been in this country since the 1700s. Some refugees from American slavery, others British Loyalists who fought alongside whites to defend this country and what it stood for. A second wave came during the 1950s and 60s from the Caribbean. Nowadays it's largely African nationals. In spite of all this tenure, a white or Asian immigrant can arrive fresh off the boat and be set for life within a matter of years while generation after generation of urban poor look on in disbelief. Anyone whose been here longer than twenty years could've obviously established themselves well enough to achieve financial security. Whites and Asians have for the most part through the vast network of oppurtunities laid in place for them from unilateral community outreach to sponsorship to antiquated hiring techniques. Lack of bad stereotypes that limit social mobility help too. Whatever the case, there IS a disparaging socioeconomic division between the majority of multigenerational blacks and other ethnic groups within Canada.

Why do you lump Asians and Whites together. People from South Asia, East Asia, Europe, South America, and Central America are the same but Blacks are some homogeneous group which is entirely different?

To make my point, a bifurcation must be reached somehow. Sorry if it comes across as a "Us" vs "Them" scenario but if one group of people are associated with a problem while everyone else isn't, it's easier to examine the smaller populus first before further breaking down the larger Eurasian group into subgroups.

Because this school is almost the same with "It's CBC's policy to screen visible minorities who pose more risk to detonate us"

Yes but instead of discrimination, it's rehabilitation. If parents/students are fully aware of potential outcomes, be it good or bad, and make the decision to enrol; it shouldn't be left upto snob appeal mentality that it'll breed segregation that we should be concern about.

I'm discriminated against as a black person while walking down the street so don't treat me like a white student who is failing or like an Asian who is failing, treat me completely different... like there is no other alternative but to send me to a special school for those of us with this special problem of dark skin pigmentation?

Visible minority= invisible scholar, valedictorian, doctorate, laureate. If we want to change that statistic, we must be aware those sentiments of inferiority preexist and are compounded by the daily exposure to cliques of overachieving Eurasians. Maybe some students would prefer to not be in a overly competitive, defeatest environment where chances to make honor role or be the teacher's pet are all but squashed by fifth grade. Or at least desire the extra training needed to better integrate with a multicultural classroom beyond high school.

No. I think some people screwed up before they made money and some people screwed up after they made more. Sometimes hurricanes hit Jamaica but don't hit Florida but it isn't racism.

If ordinary people get away with far worse on a daily basis, why are we so quick hold stars in such high regard to judge 'certain' celebrities while have sympathy for the transgressions of other less polarizing figures?

They have been in the press getting ridiculed because they are screw ups.

Apparently stupidity knows no ethnic divide !

Right. Denzel Washington, and Morgan Freeman only have black fans and are easily expendable in the movies they are in getting blown away within the first 10 minutes of the movie. Maybe some people are stars and some aren't.

Well both those actors had their starts in very stereotyped/racially demeaning roles. In Driving Miss Daisy, Shawshank Redemption, Malcolm X, they played characters abused by the white establishment. When DW finally received his long overdue oscar for Training Day it was as a gangster, not for the many positive roles he protrayed for the years. Now he's typecasted always playing gunmen, forever just an American Gangster not a Titan worth Remembering. Sadly when blacks attain that level of success they get brandished Oreos as if to say their ethnicity had nothing to do with it, only their inner 'whiteness'.

Because of racism or because people didn't like their music? There are plenty of successful black music artists out there.

It's obvious talent means nothing in the entertainment biz anymore, only who's the biggest sellout. These successes are more than fine polluting impressionable youth with the virtues of bravado, raunch, machismo and slackness as their route out of poverty. But of course this isn't a race thing. Countless white songtresses one after the next too ditch their guitars (i.e. intgrity, fidelity) for the whore look and produce one falsetto black-vocalized album after the next, making millions. Or maybe it is a race thing afterall. Fefe Dobson is literally the black Avril Lavigne but gets nowhere near the attention nor record sales despite being in a quote on quote white genre. The music biz like reality TV is merely a popularity contest, talent has nothing to do with it, which is why I've stop listening to commercial radio.

I've got one. Grades and problems with authority.

Again could be anyone, but if one group is failing at a rate disportionate to the student body in entirity, a means of pinpointing the problem is advantageous to the at-risk group not demeaning. Think of where all the drug addicts and alcoholics of the world would be if their loved ones continued to live in denial instead of holding an intervention for them?

Why do more black youths idolize Snoop Dog over Will Smith?

Well they both used rap/hip-hop culture to get where they are today, so to me one's no more better than the other. It sends a bad message to black teens that the entertainment biz (i.e. mainly basketball and rap) are the only fasttrack to wealth at their disposal.