[jozl]

I had a similar experience in the Baltimore airport when I was 59 years old. Ridiculous and, I suspect (US) unconstitutional. I'm surprised no one has challenged it. I grew up in NY state when the drinking age was 18. There were few problems back then. My buddies and I would try to buy booze when we were under age and were never successful. No way a liquor store or supermarket would risk losing their liquor license-and their livelihood- by selling to a minor.
It doesn't take a genius to read an i.d. and determine someone's age. The Beer Store and their unionized work force would have you believe otherwise. Much ado about nothing.

 

[SweetWater]

14 year olds drinking

I have always felt there is a lot of merit to this type of strategy: teach youth an appropriate approach to alcohol consumption.

Most people are immature when they learn how to drink so if they can do it with parental guidance and before they are old enough to drive a car, all the better.

Anybody can get someone to buy alcohol for them so whether the legal drinking age is 16, 18, 19 or 21 you still have the same drinking problems. It is the education / counseling that we need more of.

I won't be satisfied until Ontario gets the roughly the same sort of alcohol regulations as they have in Germany. See link.

 

[MisterF]

So supermarkets won't be allowed to sell 12-packs or 24s. Essentially this is an extension of the sweetheart deal for the Beer Store that the Star has been railing against for the last year. Why let the private retailer owned by the breweries to sell 24s but not private retailers not owned by the breweries? Supermarkets won't get a market share much bigger than the LCBO because a 24 is cheaper than four 6-packs.

Since I started this thread I feel I should weigh in on the governments' stated changes. While I agree with SweetWater's analyses I'm hoping that this is just the thin edge of the wedge. It's obvious that Queens Park has no interest in allowing free enterprise determine the price of beer - or any other alcoholic beverage sold in stodgy old Ontario. Until that changes we won't see much more in the way of convenience or lower prices for consumers. But, I see this as an ok first step. Why only allow beer in 450 supermarkets? Why not in convenience stores? Why are we still limited to 6 packs? Why isn't wine included? Why allow price fixing? Why limit the hours to match those of the Beer Store? Why cordon off the "beer section"? I'm sure we can all take a pretty good stab at answering these questions fairly accurately. The bottom line is Queens Park should not be in the retail business, period.
I hope the Toronto Star keeps up the pressure. I know I will. It's absolutely irksome the way our elected officials dole out little "favors" to the people that elected them while giving away the bank to special interest groups i.e. The Beer Store.
Nevertheless, I will enjoy the new changes. I'd rather buy my beer in a supermarket than in an LCBO or TBS if only out of spite.

Yeah I'm hoping that this will lead to bigger changes in the future, although the cynic in me thinks that this is just the government's attempt to keep the breweries happy and hoping all the critics will shut up about it. I'm hoping it has the opposite effect - once the public gets a taste of the convenience of buying beer in the same store they buy their food they'll start demanding more. Same thing with wine - why not brandy? Or rum? We're like East Germans before the Berlin Wall fell - while the rest of the Western world goes to whatever store they wish to buy alcohol we happily put up with the bread lines...er, Beer Store lines because we don't know any better. But public pressure will turn when we realize the world won't fall by letting us buy a 24 or a bottle of Scotch at Loblaws. Ms. Wynne, tear down this wall!

 

[wopchop]

Yeah I'm hoping that this will lead to bigger changes in the future, although the cynic in me thinks that this is just the government's attempt to keep the breweries happy and hoping all the critics will shut up about it. I'm hoping it has the opposite effect - once the public gets a taste of the convenience of buying beer in the same store they buy their food they'll start demanding more.

I think this is extremely likely. People currently on the fence, or who don't care, will start to ask questions and demand more options.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think this is extremely likely. People currently on the fence, or who don't care, will start to ask questions and demand more options.

The people on the fence I could see moving one way or the other (it gets uncomfortable on a fence eventually)....but what is going to make the people who don't care all of a sudden care?

I happen to fall into the latter camp.....I drink beer, I buy beer....I drink other stuff...I buy other stuff....but have never, ever, been in a situation where I cannot get what I want to get. So I don't care.......and am, frankly, a bit stunned that beer and wine distribution became , seemingly, the biggest issue this province faces. What it going to happen to make me care and "demand more options"?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Be careful what you wish for.

This article is about an incident in Iowa, where a 57-year old man tried, that's tried, to buy two six packs of Budweiser and some Smirnoff at a Wal-Mart store. From link:

Walmart refuses to sell alcohol to Iowa dad shopping with teen daughter


Walmart is apologizing after it refused to sell alcohol to a man who was shopping with his teenage daughter.

According to The Des Moines Register, Jim Davis was trying to buy two six packs of Budweiser and some Smirnoff for his wife.

But when the 57-year-old reached the checkout counter at the Walmart Supercenter in Ames, Iowa, with $80 in groceries and the alcohol, the cashier asked his 15-year-old daughter to see her ID – instead of his.

Because the teen had no ID, the employee refused to sell the alcohol to Davis.

It’s part of Wal-Mart’s recent efforts to make sure they aren’t selling alcohol to minors, the store’s customer service department told Davis in response to a complaint he made. The store has had a policy since 2003 requiring ID from all customers who appear under the age of 40.

“In order to ensure that alcoholic beverages and tobacco are not sold to minors, Walmart is testing point-of-sale age checks in some locations across the country,” the customer service statement read. “By testing this, we hope to discover the best methods for ensuring that products are not sold illegally to minors. In addition, to comply with federal laws, stores may ask for the ID from individuals within a group other than the person making the purchase.”

Davis says he was humiliated by the entire experience and will be taking his shopping elsewhere.

“If Walmart is so worried about underage drinking and smoking, why do they sell alcohol and tobacco to begin with?” Davis asked. “Are they going to do this with other potentially dangerous things they sell, like ammo?”

A supervisor later said the employee was wrong to refuse the alcohol sale.

I have been inside The Beer Store or the LCBO here in Ontario, with my kids in tow, and never had that sort of trouble.

The good thing, the Wal-Mart does not have a monopoly there, unlike the 450 grocery stores limited here in Ontario.

 

[wopchop]

The people on the fence I could see moving one way or the other (it gets uncomfortable on a fence eventually)....but what is going to make the people who don't care all of a sudden care?

I was referring to having 6-packs in grocery stores, but not 12-packs or 24s. I feel people might start asking why can't the grocery stores just sell everything.

It's not necessarily about not being able to get what you want to get. It's about convenience. People become addicted to convenience.

 

[gabe]

I have been inside The Beer Store or the LCBO here in Ontario, with my kids in tow, and never had that sort of trouble.

The good thing, the Wal-Mart does not have a monopoly there, unlike the 450 grocery stores limited here in Ontario.

I have been in beer and liquor stores all over US with kids in tow and never had that kind of problem.

The states does have a few strange liquor laws. In Oklahoma beer may only be sold in licensed liquor stores at room temperature. I thought our liquor laws were crazy, until i visited Utah. Beer in Utah is basically water, anything over 3% alcohol is considered hard liquor and must be sold in a state run liquor stores. When drinking in a restaurant or siting at the bar, you must have food on the table, or they cannot serve you. And restaurants must pour all alcoholic beverages behind a "Zion curtain" which is a partition, so people in the dining area can't see the bartenders pouring drinks. The Mormon church runs Utah, and that church is crazy, like Scientology crazy.

 

[TOareaFan]

I was referring to having 6-packs in grocery stores, but not 12-packs or 24s. I feel people might start asking why can't the grocery stores just sell everything.

It's not necessarily about not being able to get what you want to get. It's about convenience. People become addicted to convenience.

Sure....but if people don't care now...i can't see them caring more in the future. I am one of them and if i am in the grocery store and my list of things to buy is 12 beers...I will pick up two six packs of beer...i know it costs a bit more than if i got out of the store, drove to the beer store and bought twelve there.....but, that "more" is probably not worth that effort and i get that convenience has a cost.

I am not trying to change anyone's views....i don't care...but I can assure you the chances of me caring more in the near future border on nil.

 

[Transportfan]

Be careful what you wish for.

This article is about an incident in Iowa, where a 57-year old man tried, that's tried, to buy two six packs of Budweiser and some Smirnoff at a Wal-Mart store. From link:

More Yankee stuff again. That country's news is as inescapable as the Law of Gravity.

 

[gabe]

Sure....but if people don't care now...i can't see them caring more in the future. I am one of them and if i am in the grocery store and my list of things to buy is 12 beers...I will pick up two six packs of beer...i know it costs a bit more than if i got out of the store, drove to the beer store and bought twelve there.....but, that "more" is probably not worth that effort and i get that convenience has a cost.

I am not trying to change anyone's views....i don't care...but I can assure you the chances of me caring more in the near future border on nil.

You don't care but a lot of Ontarians do care. Support will only grow, once they see how convenient it is to buy beer in a grocery store.

Angus Reid Opinion Poll – 69% of Ontarians Want Beer Sold in More than the Beer Store http://ontariocstores.ca/angus-reid...s-want-beer-sold-in-more-than-the-beer-store/

Two thirds favour beer and wine in grocery stores Read more at: http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/254/most-will-buy-beer-at-grocery-store-not-beer-store/

 

[wopchop]

Sure....but if people don't care now...i can't see them caring more in the future.

I get what you're saying, but this is a pretty skewed view of the situation. People don't care now, sure, but that's easy when there is nothing to care about. Once the option is available, the situation is different, and it is easier to suddenly care, as it is directly in your face.

 

[TOareaFan]

I get what you're saying, but this is a pretty skewed view of the situation. People don't care now, sure, but that's easy when there is nothing to care about. Once the option is available, the situation is different, and it is easier to suddenly care, as it is directly in your face.

We should end it but I can say it has been, at least, 5 years since I have been in a beer store...I buy my beer at the liquor store where that same restriction has directly in my face....and yet I don't care. I buy my beer there because it is more convenient to buy beer as I buy wine and spirits and if that convenience costs me...so be it. Again, those of us who don't care aren't unaware of how the system works....we just don't care.

 

[TOareaFan]

You don't care but a lot of Ontarians do care.

Sure...but that is not the discussion I was involved in. There was a suggestion that people who don't care now (and I am but one of them) will all of a sudden start to care when we see beer, in limited fashion, in a limited number of grocery stores.

I am just saying if we don't care now....I can't see us caring tomorrow.....however many of us there are.

 

[MisterF]

TOareaFan, everyone in Ontario has grown up only ever knowing a system where beer and liquor are sold in special stores and nowhere else. They see beer in supermarkets as a fuzzy hypothetical concept. But once beer starts to be sold at Sobeys, people will start to realize how much easier it is to buy food, beer and wine in a single trip. Once that door is open then it will start to matter to people. And they will realize that they're forced to pay more for 24 beers at the supermarket for no reason. Saving a few bucks matters to people. How do you think Wal-Mart stays in business?

So I don't care.......and am, frankly, a bit stunned that beer and wine distribution became , seemingly, the biggest issue this province faces.

Nobody said that it was.