[Tewder]

You and I both know that the government makes too much money to voluntarily give up the private liquor game, so let's just put that to bed now.

Yeah 'put that to bed now' which is exactly what the government wants you to do. It Pats you on the head, shuts you up with a few minor sketchy concessions, and hopes Hoser Joe goes away once and for all, content with his healthcare, beer and hockey... ethics be damned!

Look, the government isn't giving anything away here out of the goodness of its heart. Their private monopoly and beer store cartel deal would carry on unchallenged - across political regimes and administrations - were it not for some brave individuals who decided not to 'just put that to bed now'. As an electorate we do not have to accept bad deals and meagre offerings, all we have to do is care enough to open our mouths and demand more. The funny thing is, they will listen because they just want to keep their jobs.

... and if not, then let's at least be honest about the deals with the devil we choose to make rather than parroting government spin that this is some sort of welcomed improvement. It's not. It's a money grab, pure and simple, wrapped up inside a PR moment.

Beer consumption reached a peak in the mid 80's and has been declining ever since. On top of that, macro breweries aren't only competing with wine and liquor, but independant breweries are gaining small but significant ground. As of 2013 total craft beer was outselling Budweiser in US sales for the first time ever. Realistically Big Beer won't be where they are now in ten to fifteen years, unless they have the money to buy out the vast majority of craft breweries (if they're willing to sell) which is unlikely.

Do you understand that that is precisely the history of what has happened, and consistently? The big guys buy out the smaller players once they've reach a certain size, routinely. Companies that are hundreds of years old get bought. New start-ups get bought... come on, everybody's got a price, even image-obsessed, craft beer-swilling millenials, who's integrity i'd gladly acknowledge by the way if they were taking to the streets demanding a better shake for all, for restaurants, independent retailers, mom & pops etc., etc... but i don't really see them doing too much except growing beards.

 

[gabe]

This would be fantastic if it ever happens. I have been to craft beer stores in NYC, they are fantastic, the selection is just mind blowing. They are always rotating the brews too. So every month you get a new selection of beers.


Ontario open to giving craft brewers their own specialty stores http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...s-their-own-specialty-stores/article23608623/

Under OCB’s proposal, each Ontario craft brewer would get the right to open at least one off-site store. In addition to retailing their own beers, they would also be allowed to sell beers from other craft brewers, both domestic and international.

As the system now stands, The Beer Store controls 80 per cent of the province’s beer sales. Craft brewers must pay The Beer Store’s owners – Molson Coors, AB InBev and Sapporo – a fee to sell their beer with them. The craft brewers’ only other retail options are the government-owned LCBO or selling directly at the site of their brewery.

 

[TOareaFan]

a bit stunned that this thread not back near the top today

 

[P23]

We got screwed. Literally the only benefit is the Beer Store might have a couple more brands and you can buy beer in a couple more stores near you. Hours for sale are restricted, beer needs to be cordoned off from the rest of the store (ensuring only big supermarkets will bother, in addition to the license fee). Worst of all is the new beer tax, so now we pay even higher prices than we already did.

 

[W. K. Lis]

We got screwed. Literally the only benefit is the Beer Store might have a couple more brands and you can buy beer in a couple more stores near you. Hours for sale are restricted, beer needs to be cordoned off from the rest of the store (ensuring only big supermarkets will bother, in addition to the license fee). Worst of all is the new beer tax, so now we pay even higher prices than we already did.

We still have prohibition.

 

[TOareaFan]

We got screwed. Literally the only benefit is the Beer Store might have a couple more brands and you can buy beer in a couple more stores near you. Hours for sale are restricted, beer needs to be cordoned off from the rest of the store (ensuring only big supermarkets will bother, in addition to the license fee). Worst of all is the new beer tax, so now we pay even higher prices than we already did.

from a page or so ago

Was this not obvious from the panel's findings...they spoke of maximizing the assets from a revenue point of view not from a taxpayer/customer convenience point of view.

Even before the findings this was clear in the mandate

http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...ptimize_lcbo_hydro_one_and_ontario_power.html

 

[gabe]

What an absolute joke! So if i'm buying beer at one of the few grocery stores that carries beer, i now have to go through two check outs?

10 things to know about Ontario beer reform http://www.therecord.com/news-story/5562067-10-things-to-know-about-ontario-beer-reform/

TORONTO - Ten things you should know about pending changes to the sale of beer in Ontario:

— A new tax, approximately $1 on a case of 24, will be phased in over four years at 25 cents a case.

— Major brewers will cap prices on their most popular brands, which represent about 50 per cent of the market, for the next two years.

— Up to 450 grocery stores in urban areas (many small towns already have "combination" stores that are able to sell 12-packs and 24 cases) will be licensed to sell beer in six-packs or smaller sizes. Beer will be sold in separate sections of the store, operating during the same hours as the Beer Store.

— A pilot project will see 12-packs of beer sold in 10 LCBO stores that are more than two kilometres from a Beer Store, so it doesn't "erode" Beer Store's business.

— The Beer Store will spend $100 million to modernize their stores and all new stores will be open concept, self-serve formats.

— Bars and restaurants that buy up to 250 cases of beer will be able to purchase the product at the same price as consumers.

— Small brewers will see costs of retailing through the Beer Store fall by five to 10 per cent and will have a minimum of 20 per cent of shelf space.

— The LCBO will create new boutiques for niche products such as craft beer and specialty spirits in stores, which will sell alcohol in different formats such as refillable beer containers.

— An independent beer ombudsman will be appointed to address brewer and customer complaints.

— An advisory council is still examining what to do about the distribution of wine and spirits.

 

[ttk77]

I'm starting to think it's time to gather support for a general tax increase in exchange for a complete exit of government from alcohol sales and taxation. This really feels like a bait and switch. The government started out looking to play hardball with the beer store and ended up doing just about everything they could to protect it.

 

[ShonTron]

What an absolute joke! So if i'm buying beer at one of the few grocery stores that carries beer, i now have to go through two check outs?

I think it means that beer will be separated in the same way the pharmacies are separated in large supermarkets - certain shelves with non-prescription medications are closed during off hours when the pharmacy isn't staffed; otherwise you'd be able to buy those things at the regular check-out.

The slow transition away from the Brewers Retail quasi-monopoly is frustrating. We already have small supermarkets and general stores in small towns and villages selling beer and wine (Agency Stores) here in Ontario. Why not expand that program to large supermarkets, while revoking the Beer Store's agency agreements and let the LCBO regulate that expanded network of agency stores?

 

[TOareaFan]

I think it means that beer will be separated in the same way the pharmacies are separated in large supermarkets - certain shelves with non-prescription medications are closed during off hours when the pharmacy isn't staffed; otherwise you'd be able to buy those things at the regular check-out.

The slow transition away from the Brewers Retail quasi-monopoly is frustrating. We already have small supermarkets and general stores in small towns and villages selling beer and wine (Agency Stores) here in Ontario. Why not expand that program to large supermarkets, while revoking the Beer Store's agency agreements and let the LCBO regulate that expanded network of agency stores?

The devil will be in the details......there are pluses and minuses to both. Even the pharmacy model you talk of some items have to be paid separately (essentially anything you have to ask the pharmacy guy to give you.

If they force two checkouts then the convenience is lowered....if they allow you to throw a six pack in your cart all those 16 and 17 year olds who look to earn pt work at those checkout stations can kiss their jobs/hopes of jobs goodbye.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

The devil will be in the details......there are pluses and minuses to both. Even the pharmacy model you talk of some items have to be paid separately (essentially anything you have to ask the pharmacy guy to give you.

If they force two checkouts then the convenience is lowered....if they allow you to throw a six pack in your cart all those 16 and 17 year olds who look to earn pt work at those checkout stations can kiss their jobs/hopes of jobs goodbye.

It's annoying but it's still progress. I was just in the States at a major grocery store; they had a pretty good wine and beer selection in the store itself BUT the hard liquor was in a "specialty shop" attached to the entrance, so 2 check-outs. (The liquor store also had a small, more-upscale shelf of wine, FWIW). The logic for separating liquor and beer eludes me but either way, a bit of perspective is warranted.

I don't buy any of The Beer Store fear-mongering but there probably is some value in having special staff monitoring check-out instead of asking your average grocery store cashier to suddenly be responsible for checking IDs etc. Many of them are teens, for starters.

 

[ttk77]

We're not exactly doing anything new here. How do other jurisdictions handle sales? Do they ban 16/17 year olds from working in grocery stores, or should we just be looking at changing our laws?

 

[TOareaFan]

We're not exactly doing anything new here. How do other jurisdictions handle sales? Do they ban 16/17 year olds from working in grocery stores, or should we just be looking at changing our laws?

To be clear...I am not sure if we should or shouldn't be amending our laws regarding the age at which you can sell alcohol (it reaches far beyond beer in grocery stores to every single licensed resto/bar in the province) but there was no mention of it yesterday and I was simply pointing out that one of the consequences (under current law) of allowing beer in grocery stores if there is no separate check out would be the elimination of the availability of these decent jobs for 16 and 17 year olds.

 

[W. K. Lis]

To see the current regulations, go over to the AGCO website at this link. Especially at their FAQs, at this link.

 

[SweetWater]

Kathleen Wynne said that they had "tough negotiations" with the #BeerCartel.
Looks like the Beer Store WON and Consumers LOST. The government needs to get out alcohol retailing and controlling distribution business - they just don't have the skill to do it.

I'm starting to think it's time to gather support for a general tax increase in exchange for a complete exit of government from alcohol sales and taxation. This really feels like a bait and switch. The government started out looking to play hardball with the beer store and ended up doing just about everything they could to protect it.