kEiThZ
Superstar
Yep. And these guys are more competent and capable than Toyota and Honda were when they first started expanding internationally.
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- Thread starter kEiThZ
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kEiThZ
Superstar
This is an example of how they are going to slowly push the legacy automakers back to home markets.
BYD reveals new Shark hybrid pickup truck that Americans can't buy
China's BYD Auto launched its all-new Shark plug-in hybrid pickup truck on Tuesday with 430 horsepower and has 62 miles of all-electric range.
www.businessinsider.com
rbt
Senior Member
They have a fairly strong growth curve within the BEV market in Europe, particularly Spain and France. The bigger question is will BEVs replace ICE.
How Europe can use tariffs as part of an industrial strategy
Europe's leading NGO campaigning for cleaner transport
www.transportenvironment.org
afransen
Senior Member
rbt
Senior Member
There are laws to encourage that transition but it's not yet clear the European is fully onboard. A small bout of populism can easily delay the dates if not repeal them entirely.
UK mind-share seems to be leaning heavily toward Hydrogen for both home heating and vehicles. Even nearly free (heavily subsidized) heat-pump installations are struggling there due to electricity rate fears.
Anyway, yeah, I'd say it's more likely for Chinese designed BEVs to dominate the European BEV market than it is for BEVs to pass 50% of new vehicle market share in the EU + UK. That's more a statement about certainty of Chinese BEV dominance than any expectation of BEV alternatives.
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afransen
Senior Member
Hydrogen has the small problem of being a thermodynamically silly idea. It isn't scalable and it isn't economic.
If we are suggesting to make it out of natural gas, we'd be better off burning the gas directly and skipping the trillion dollar greenwashing infrastructure.
If we are suggesting green hydrogen, it takes 3x the electricity to make hydrogen first to fuel a FCEV vs a BEV so is kind of inherently more expensive.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Not true. In 2023 Canada imported over 44,000 EVs from China, mostly Teslas made in Shanghai, but also Volvo's Polestars made in Chengdu, China.
China-made Teslas pour into Canada
Polestar is slated to move production for the US market to the USA, but only due to Biden's sanctions. If Canada does not follow suit, we'll be a dumping ground for Chinese EVs.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
With the right partners, a good chance, I'd say.
Volkswagen Will Invest Up to $5 Billion in Rivian
VW and Rivian, a maker of electric trucks that has struggled to increase sales and break even, will work together on software and other technologies.
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Towered
Superstar
I've been seeing a lot of those Rivians on the road lately.With the right partners, a good chance, I'd say.
Paywall free: https://archive.is/1YH23Volkswagen Will Invest Up to $5 Billion in Rivian
VW and Rivian, a maker of electric trucks that has struggled to increase sales and break even, will work together on software and other technologies.www.nytimes.com
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Mrs. and I are planning to retire and reduce to a single car in the next five to six years. By then our current vehicles will be ready for replacement, and we plan to go to just one vehicle. I will not give any money to Elon, so Tesla is out. The compact Rivian R3 looks ideal for our small parking pad.
afransen
Senior Member
It's a bit of a desperation move. Rivian is still burning cash at over $1B per quarter, and this infusion will lead to significant dilution of existing shareholders.With the right partners, a good chance, I'd say.
Paywall free: https://archive.is/1YH23Volkswagen Will Invest Up to $5 Billion in Rivian
VW and Rivian, a maker of electric trucks that has struggled to increase sales and break even, will work together on software and other technologies.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
It’s not all rosy though.
Tesla’s Share of U.S. Electric Car Market Falls Below 50%
49% market share is still amazing, though a marked decline and perhaps a trend in a now maturing market that will eventually see Tesla as just another car firm.Clearly the legacy car companies were keeping their powder dry whilst Elon established the EV market and public acceptance, demonstrated the areas of success and failure and identified the opportunities. And now the legacy firms are using their dealer/service networks, established reputations with ICE vehicle owners, and their culture of frequent model refreshes and relaunches to make a jump on Tesla.
I'm looking forward to seeing Toyota's first all-electric EV https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/bz4x/overview. Toyota quality without the Elon nonsense is a plus for me.
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afransen
Senior Member
Toyota makes EVs. They aren't great. See bz4x.
MrGoose
Active Member
A first time EV, vs Tesla which has been making EVs for years and still routinely turns out crap.
If not toyota, then it'll be VW, or BYD or some other manufacturer
crs1026
Superstar
Nothing good comes from a market where one manufacturer dominates market share.
I have no brand choice in this race, but there will be better cars and better prices when several manufacturers are putting out EV's that match or better Tesla in quality and functionality
- Paul
I have no brand choice in this race, but there will be better cars and better prices when several manufacturers are putting out EV's that match or better Tesla in quality and functionality
- Paul