[syn]

"Once you go Mac, you don't go back".

I know a few people who tried a Mac, then returned it and decided to stick with their PC.

Regarding updates, there really isn't any difference between the Mac OS and Windows update procedures.

 

[syn]

MetroMan:



That's exactly my point - if you are in the know and wanted to really upgrade or otherwise play with the various components of your system, PC is a far superior option. If, as you say, you wanted a system to just run like a consumer electronic product, go for a Mac.

Except of course Apple charges a premium for it. There are also some grumbling among Mac fans that the company basically pushes you to get a completely new system if you managed to outgrow a certain component (esp. GPUs). Like for example - if you have an older version of Mac Pro, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of Nvidia 8800 GT (the current sweet spot) - you wouldn't even have the option of upgrading your motherboard for it as it stand right now. Not to mention, the card carries an almost 50% price premium.

I don't think one platform is inheritly superior to another - it all depends on what your priorities are.

AoD

The PC is a very flexible platform and certainly allows for a lot more creativity and experimentation.

I think that anyone looking for a computer should do a bit of research and have at least a bit of basic knowledge about how it works...kind of like buying any other major product one uses (like a car). A lot of Apple users really get ripped off by not doing a bit of research.

Of course, if people are willing to pay a premium for that it's fine, but the advice they get from Mac "geniuses" is often pretty ridiculous (like needing a new system every two years). A little bit of knowledge, whether or not they're intent on getting a Mac, could really help them out.

 

[Brandon716]

The PC is a very flexible platform and certainly allows for a lot more creativity and experimentation.

I think that anyone looking for a computer should do a bit of research and have at least a bit of basic knowledge about how it works...kind of like buying any other major product one uses (like a car). A lot of Apple users really get ripped off by not doing a bit of research.

Of course, if people are willing to pay a premium for that it's fine, but the advice they get from Mac "geniuses" is often pretty ridiculous (like needing a new system every two years). A little bit of knowledge, whether or not they're intent on getting a Mac, could really help them out.

Some people want that extra level of support or that platform that is different from the norm.

I hardly think Windows Vista is the most "creative" operating system around, nor was XP. Its certainly got more stuff to use, but creative isn't a word I think of when I think of any Windows platform.

Microsoft makes a competitive product, and its cheaper than MacOS products generally speaking.

But then again for Mac users, they can just walk into an Apple store and get that special support. It does cost more, but its better for that aspect.

Some people simply like that.

 

[MetroMan]

To me, it's synonymous with a Mercedes vs Hyundai experience. You pay more but you also get a better experience.

Customer service and a hassle free experience is golden for me.

Alvin made a good point of Macs and PC's being for different kinds of people. None are right or wrong.

Despite being a developer and knowing the intrinsics of both systems, I rather not have to deal with the inner workings of the OS.

Either you have a push button experience or you have a soddering board with little lights. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Brandon716]

To me, it's synonymous with a Mercedes vs Hyundai experience. You pay more but you also get a better experience.

Customer service and a hassle free experience is golden for me.

Alvin made a good point of Macs and PC's being for different kinds of people. None are right or wrong.

Despite being a developer and knowing the intrinsics of both systems, I rather not have to deal with the inner workings of the OS.

Either you have a push button experience or you have a soddering board with little lights. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I always hated when people compared PC's to cars. That analogy supposedly makes some sense, but with a Hyundai you are more limited with parts and support whereas the PC actually has many tens of thousands more options than a MacOS X based system.

One of the reasons the MacOS X platform is so solid is precisely because Apple controls so much of the hardware and software that it works with, limiting choice.

I'm kind of laughing that this discussion has become as long as it has, because the two platforms each have a good side to them. To be honest, there is an entire world beyond Windows OR MacOS. These are just two corporate variants in the OS world, and there are all kinds of open source free platforms from the many forms of Linux to BSD to other small niche products.

Now if you want hard to use, try a Linux box. The arcane commands required to do some things will make it more than interesting.

 

[Steve_D]

Either you have a push button experience or you have a soddering board with little lights.

Gee, when was the last time you saw a PC? Timex/sinclair era...the same era where Apple II's came as kits you had to solder together?

 

[MetroMan]

It's a metaphore.

 

[doady]

But then again for Mac users, they can just walk into an Apple store and get that special support. It does cost more, but its better for that aspect.

The amount of support for a PC depends on where you buy it from. For example, gaming PC companies like Alienware and Falcon Northwest offer excellent and comprehensive support. You do not have to buy any brand-name systems either.

Others build a PC from scratch themselves. The PC platform is open-ended so it offers this flexibilty and give you choices that the Mac platform does not, because the Mac itself is a brand name.

 

[syn]

Some people want that extra level of support or that platform that is different from the norm.

I can appreciate that but Apple isn't doing people any favours. They're trying to make money off them.

It's like going to a car dealership and just trusting them to give you the best deal right away and a car that perfectly suits your needs without making any more than they have to.

I hardly think Windows Vista is the most "creative" operating system around, nor was XP. Its certainly got more stuff to use, but creative isn't a word I think of when I think of any Windows platform.

I said the PC is a more creative platform. You can experiment with hardware and there are many more configurations available than their are with a Mac. There are also far more programs available.

But then again for Mac users, they can just walk into an Apple store and get that special support. It does cost more, but its better for that aspect.

Some people simply like that.

As I said, I can appreciate that. My point is that going in with no knowledge and allowing them to sell you whatever they'd like is a pretty dumb thing to do.

It's not like PCs have no support either. You can return a PC to where you bought it for help as well.

 

[syn]

To me, it's synonymous with a Mercedes vs Hyundai experience. You pay more but you also get a better experience.

Customer service and a hassle free experience is golden for me.

Alvin made a good point of Macs and PC's being for different kinds of people. None are right or wrong.

Despite being a developer and knowing the intrinsics of both systems, I rather not have to deal with the inner workings of the OS.

Either you have a push button experience or you have a soddering board with little lights. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I've been using XP for years and have never had to deal with the "inner workings" of the OS...at least not anymore than my Mac friends have.

 

[MetroMan]

Installing drivers, protecting your PC from viruses and spyware, searching for whateverfile.dll to get your printer to work... all that constitutes dealing with the inner workings of the OS.

This shouldn't be something that the end user has to deal with unless they want to.

 

[MetroMan]

The point of the matter -- and I'm trying to steer this thread back on topic: Windows Vista's problems -- is that Microsoft is going to lose their monopoly of the consumer operating system market with the failure of Vista unless something radical is done.

This is a curious time for Bill Gates to take off (retire while you're still on top). Microsoft's board of directors needs to kick Steve Balmer off his nutcase path and hire somebody with a cool mind and a better sense of what consumers want.

I'm not presumptions to argue that I would make a good CEO, but if I were in charge of MS, I'd take the horse by the reigns and start a new OS division separate from the Windows division.
Microsoft has the assets to design a new OS from the ground up. The major problem with Windows is all the legacy stuff that adds unnecessary bulk to the OS. Old concepts that date back to DOS are still in use in Vista.

I'd put the people responsible for X BOX on a committee for the UI and take key engineers responsible for the successful parts of Windows and have them design the core engine of this new OS.

We're nearly at a crossroads equivalent to the introduction of the Mouse to the consumer PC in 1984. Touch interfaces are upon us and the mouse will go the way of the floppy in five years or less. This is an opportunity for Microsoft to branch off a new OS not backward compatible and shed off all their legacy code.

Continue developing Windows Vista to make it stable for current users and then release a new OS (it can keep the Windows moniker or go with something new to mark its "brand-newness") and don't sell it as an OS that you can install on your current system. Make it only available to PC manufacturers to preinstall on their new computers (with the necessary requirements to run it flawlessly). Release it for DIY PC builders after it's become established and polished.

Only like this will Windows be able to take its current dominance and come above all this Windows Vista mess.

Otherwise, it's becoming clear that the future is about custom OS's for each manufacturer (ex: Asus IEEE PC) which run online apps compatible with any OS because they're run in a browser that complies to standards (Googles online apps and now Adobe's Photoshop express run on any OS that can run a browser).

I see Sony -- usually the less Microsoft-like of the major brands -- becoming a pioneer in this. I fully expect them to release their own custom brand of Linux pre-installed on their machines shortly before this whole Vista bondoggle blows up in Microsoft's face.

We'll probably see several OS's pre-installed on mainstream computers in the coming years. Off the top of my head: Windows, Mac OS, Asus Linux, Google OS (there's real evidence that they're developing an experimental OS), Sony Linux and probably Dell and HP Linux flavors. They'll all be able to run each other's apps because those apps will increasingly migrate online (The Solution to software piracy) and run with a browser as the engine.

... and that's my bold prediction folks. Hopefully this post will still be here when it all unfolds.

 

[syn]

Installing drivers, protecting your PC from viruses and spyware, searching for whateverfile.dll to get your printer to work... all that constitutes dealing with the inner workings of the OS.

This shouldn't be something that the end user has to deal with unless they want to.

Mac users occasionally have to install drivers too. I can't remember the last driver I installed. In any case, it's not difficult to do even if necessary on the Mac or PC.

Mac users have to protect themselves from spyware and viruses too.

I've never had to search for a DLL to get my printer to work.

You read like an Apple commercial.

 

[MetroMan]

Mac users have to protect themselves from spyware and viruses too.

The UNIX nature of the OS does that for them.

It's suggested (probably as a legal disclaimer) but most Mac users know that buying an anti-virus/anti-spyware application is a complete waste of money.

I've never installed one on my Mac and have never been the least bit worried about getting a virus or spyware... and with reason.

 

[Steve_D]

The UNIX nature of the OS does that for them.

LOL, that's cute.