[ssiguy2]

If ever there was a time to raise such an issue it is BEFORE an election and not after it.
I don't see the hesitation.......go to the Star and engage them about a poll of what all areas think about a flat sales and gas tax...........they have nothing to lose.
I can understand McGuinty's position. He is already funding 100% of the Eglinton Line so why should he fork out even more money when Torontonians aren't willing to contribute a single dime. I know this may come as a shock to Torontonians but not everyone in Ontario lives in Toronto. Truth be told only only 20% do and less than half live in the entire GTA. Why should the people of Lindsay, Leamington, or London havee to pay 100% of Toronto's urban infrastructure? They don't get a similar deal when it comes to improving their roads or transit. Something tells me London won't be getting half a billion cash for it's transit expansion plans anytime soon.
Contrary to what most Torontonians think others in the province don't have an issue with large Toronto infrastructure spending but they have a problem when they get 100% of theirs paid for by Queen's Park while they have to have municiple contributions.
For Ottawa's and KWC LRT pland both cities are , as they should, make substantial contributions themselves but somehow Toronton doesn't have to cough up a damn thing.
Bitch about McGuinty all you like but everyother city on the planet would give their left nut to have a $8 billion given to them for one line and not be asked to contribute anything. Even under the support the city got from Davis Toronto still had to contribute 20% of the cost of subway expansion.
If ever there was a time to put pressure on Queen's Park to get more taxing abilities to fund transit it is before an election and if a plebisite proves that Torontonians are willing to cough up some hardcore money I can't see any party refusing it.

 

[Mapleson]

If ever there was a time to raise such an issue it is BEFORE an election and not after it.

Which issue are you talking about? Metrolinx is already tasked with an Investment Strategy due in 2013. I suggest you read the strategic overview or the draft report.

I don't see the hesitation.......go to the Star and engage them about a poll of what all areas think about a flat sales and gas tax...........they have nothing to lose.

Have you not suggested it to the Star yet? If not, why do you expect someone else to do the leg work for you?

I can understand McGuinty's position. He is already funding 100% of the Eglinton Line so why should he fork out even more money when Torontonians aren't willing to contribute a single dime.

This is completely arbitrary statement. Toronto contributes to many capital project budgets. Eglinton is half of a two part project with Sheppard being completely funded by Toronto, so it's 66% Provincial and 33% Municipal.

I know this may come as a shock to Torontonians but not everyone in Ontario lives in Toronto. Truth be told only only 20% do and less than half live in the entire GTA.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? London, England is only 15% of the population of England, but that doesn't change anything about it's transit needs or economic power.

Why should the people of Lindsay, Leamington, or London have to pay 100% of Toronto's urban infrastructure? They don't get a similar deal when it comes to improving their roads or transit. Something tells me London won't be getting half a billion cash for it's transit expansion plans anytime soon.

First, the people of Lindsay would pay 0.15% of Toronto's urban infrastucture while Toronto would pay for 18.5% of Lindsay's infrastructure. Not a bad deal, if you ask me. You are ignoring the point that Toronto pays more in taxes per capita and receives less spending per capita than other parts of Ontario, just as Ontario pays more and receives less than other provinces.

Next, the Ontario PC are proposing to share the gas tax amongst all municipalities for any transportation project, instead of the 20% who currently use it for transit funding. So London should expect LESS funding as a big city. Until their Transportation Master Plan comes out this fall, there is not mythical half billion project in the works.

Contrary to what most Torontonians think others in the province don't have an issue with large Toronto infrastructure spending but they have a problem when they get 100% of theirs paid for by Queen's Park while they have to have municiple contributions.

Why not stick to your own thoughts instead of making up what you think "most people" in one area or another think?

For Ottawa's and KWC LRT pland both cities are, as they should, make substantial contributions themselves but somehow Toronton doesn't have to cough up a damn thing.

Both Ottawa and GRT LRT have federal funding. Ottawa is paying up to 1/3 and the tri-cities are paying 1/6. Toronto spends about $1 billion a year on transit infrastructure, but it doesn't receive a matching billion from senior government, like smaller cities do.

Bitch about McGuinty all you like but every other city on the planet would give their left nut to have a $8 billion given to them for one line and not be asked to contribute anything.

If that's the only funding they'd get for the next decade, many would reject the offer or complain. Most mayors wouldn't suggest they get $8 billion for one subway line and will pay their own $4 billion for a second line. It is Toronto that shifted their funding priority from part-city, part-province per line to province-paid and city-paid pair of lines. We replaced on $12 billion plan with Toronto contribution of $4 billion for a plan with $8 billion secure and $4 billion fantasy money.

Even under the support the city got from Davis Toronto still had to contribute 20% of the cost of subway expansion.

You mean the Davis who opposed a gas tax? Nowadays Cities are expect to contribute one-third, not one-fifth.

If ever there was a time to put pressure on Queen's Park to get more taxing abilities to fund transit it is before an election and if a plebisite proves that Torontonians are willing to cough up some hardcore money I can't see any party refusing it.

If McGinty announced a new transit funding-mechanism before October, it would cost more rural votes than it would gain urban voters. What exactly do you think "putting pressure on Queen's Park" will do? My guess is about as much as the "Save Transit City" pressure. People in general are anti-tax, just because it's tax. A plebisite would only serve to show that people aren't willing to cough up money, if they don't know how well it will be used.

 

[ssiguy2]

Eglinton will be paid for 100% by Queen's Park regardless of what happens to Sheppard. The only real connection between the two is that if Ford can find any savings on Eglinton he can use $650 million of those saved funds towards Sheppard.
Anyway he slice it Toronto is getting 20km of new rapid transit and not being asked to contribute one penny.
I also don't understand why people thnk that suburbanites are so anti-transit.

 

[Mapleson]

Eglinton will be paid for 100% by Queen's Park regardless of what happens to Sheppard. The only real connection between the two is that if Ford can find any savings on Eglinton he can use $650 million of those saved funds towards Sheppard.
Anyway he slice it Toronto is getting 20km of new rapid transit and not being asked to contribute one penny.

No, only when you slice it into two seperate projects and look at the one without any historical context do you get anything near "not being asked to contribute one penny". One way to cut it is that Toronto ISN'T getting $4 billion of promised infrastructure spending that once was committed over the next decade.

I also don't understand why people thnk that suburbanites are so anti-transit.

Where did this come from? I said people, all types of people not just suburbanites, are anti-tax. In general, suburbanites use less transit than urbanites because they have less transit options that are viable. Using transit less or seeing transit as inefficient, as it often is in the suburban or rural areas, directly relates to people being less willing to support it with additional tax dollars.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Toronto was given more taxing powers and the mayor won at least partially because he was very vocal about his determination to not use them and to cancel the two instances in which they'd been implemented.

(That's not to say the feds can't implement a national transit strategy. They just haven't. It's got nothing to do with the BNA Act.)

The REALITY is that the Metrolinx report (circa 2013) will definitely recommend road pricing and other similar measures but Toronto voters have made it clear they don't want to hear that they have to pay more to get more. They're going to have to come terms with that at some point because that attitude (exemplified right now by the mayor) is going to be a huge obstacle to going forward.

The DRL is a pipe dream, folks. And it's more of a pipe dream now than it was a few weeks ago even. McGuinty has NOTHING to gain electorally by telling voters he can give them an awesome rapid transit system if they'll pay more. He might as well resign and just hand the government straight over to Hudak.

While the OP clearly goes further than The Big Move it's not like there is no regional transit plan. There's a pretty good one, actually. Just no money. And, as far as I can tell, virtually zero acceptance by Ontarians that they're going to have to pay to make it a reality. That's the problem.