ADRM
Senior Member
Democracy prevails.
- Thread starter Northern Light
- Start date
HousingNowTO
Senior Member
It was honestly sad to watch Councillor Cheng flail away in Council today.
Councillor Cheng was (sadly) in tears at the end of the meeting...and Councilor Malik was comforting her.
Cheng got TERRIBLE advice... and/or refused to take the good advice she was given... repeatedly to "fold"..
Today's embarrassing drubbing could have all been avoided.
Councillor Cheng was (sadly) in tears at the end of the meeting...and Councilor Malik was comforting her.
Cheng got TERRIBLE advice... and/or refused to take the good advice she was given... repeatedly to "fold"..
Today's embarrassing drubbing could have all been avoided.
HousingNowTO
Senior Member
OLT Case Management Conference today. 30-ish people asking for "Participant Status" --- and "Voices of Willowdale" added as a party to the appeal - joining Bayview Cummer Neighbourhood Association, LiVante Holdings (Cummer) Inc (the neighbouring McMansion-Cluster builder).
OLT hearing is tentatively set for November 1st - 3rd, 2023.
OLT hearing is tentatively set for November 1st - 3rd, 2023.
Pacer
New Member
Unreal. I want this project to continue, but are we able to install these units in the meantime at another site whilst they appeal, and order more to replace?
There are so many needing homes right now
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Modular Supportive Housing are supposed to allow faster build and save cost,.. nope and nope!
All over-budget,.. with Glamorgan/Dundalk (ground broke April 2022 and still under construction now) even more overbudget than 175 Cummer,... currently! Blame on poor City management (change order & lack of approvals, lack of documentations), rushing through site evaluation (geo/hydro) and not knowing what they're dealing with (remediation)!
All over-budget,.. with Glamorgan/Dundalk (ground broke April 2022 and still under construction now) even more overbudget than 175 Cummer,... currently! Blame on poor City management (change order & lack of approvals, lack of documentations), rushing through site evaluation (geo/hydro) and not knowing what they're dealing with (remediation)!
Towered
Superstar
Not building it at all would be way cheaper!
north-of-anything
Active Member
How much is this going to cost per unit? I'd bet it's still drastically cheaper by that metric than most for-profit residential projects in the GTA... and it would have been even cheaper if it was built last year...
Northern Light
Superstar
That's a good question.
So I just looked up the unit numbers here at UT
540 Cedarvale: 59 micro-studio units.
Cost (per above) $20,058,000
That's $339,966 per unit.
That's hefty. I supported this project; but I have to say, I don't consider that cost reasonable. (which doesn't make me oppose the project, but we need to revisit how we got here (quickly).
That's at least
That's a problem.
* I imagine they're billing staff time on the application from a Planning Perspective (I don't know that); but that's still too much, I'll have to read the AG's report for details and get back to everyone.
** I made a modification to my statement above based on some private info, I'm looking further into the numbers. Still seems too high to me.
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taikou
New Member
The AG's report indicates that each modular unit is approx 350 square feet. So it costs about $339,966 / 350 = $971 per square feet! It's almost enough to buy a pretty decent apartment/condo unit in Toronto. This government is a joke!
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Actually, the Auditor General likely made a typo,... the each Modular unit is about 250 square feet,... some at 236ft2, 247ft2 and 320ft2 but majority at 253ft2,... this would make the cost per square feet look even worst,... but I suspect the initial calculation didn't factor in the space used for mechanical rooms, lounge/dinning area, office, etc,...
Image below shows the floor-plan for 175 Cummer,... 3rd floor not pictured is really copy of 2nd floor:
HousingNowTO
Senior Member
These aren't Retail-Market Condo Studio units.
You need to look at Altus cost-numbers for INSTITUTIONAL and/or SENIORS HOMES in the GTA --- when looking at SUPPORTIVE HOUSING... not regular low-rise or high-rise RESIDENTIAL costs.
Totally different Build "durability & resilience" needed for SUPPORTIVE HOUSING w/ Thick walls, Slammable doors, Sound Proofing, Increased Insulation, Flooding and Bed-Bug Barriers between units, Ultra-Quiet Fridges, etc.
Northern Light
Superstar
Even so, I just looked up the Altus numbers for Seniors Housing - Complex Care, and the high number for the GTA is $480 per ft2 which is about 1/2 what we're seeing here.
These were not billed as 'complex care' facilities, I should add; but I selected that as it's more expensive than 'assisted living'.
Even if we went to medical clinic, public sector, you only get to $580 per ft2.
Finally, I looked into my City of Toronto docs for the estimated costs on a brand new LTC in Scarborough, and I get a number lower than the clinic number above (I won't reveal the actuals as I'm not sure what the tendering stage is)
In comparing the numbers I used 350ft2 per unit as the size.
Again, I'm in favour of this idea; but I need to see how we arrived at this cost for this idea. It concerns me that we ought to be delivering more for the $ invested, which, given the need, is rather important.
Because these have come in too expensive doesn't mean they're a bad idea; but we do need to know why.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Simple solution - build more units on the site to maximize benefits.
AoD
AoD
onetoronto
New Member
Do they come with a bullet proof vehicle?
taikou
New Member
Absolutely! For higher "build durability and resilience" for supportive housing, not only that, all the units need to come with robust security system, moisture control, durable flooring and finishes, backup power systems, impact-resistant windows and doors, smart home automation, AI powered appliances etc.
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