Tewder
Senior Member
What would be incredibly naive is to not assume that politics is a factor, it is as it always is.
|
|
|
- Thread starter Southcore
- Start date
What would be incredibly naive is to not assume that politics is a factor, it is as it always is.
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
http://www.bloombergview.com/articl...0001&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
While I am planning a more fulsome reply to our resident Candide, I thought this was pretty apropos...
While I am planning a more fulsome reply to our resident Candide, I thought this was pretty apropos...
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Let's not pretend we are Chicago, let along Barcelona, Hong Kong or Paris. We are a long, long way off from tourism creating a persistent negative impact on livability (as to the case of Hong Kong, as much as I sympathize with their issues, they also have to ask who had been keeping their retail economy afloat? Tourism from Mainland China).
And of course, lest I remind everyone that a good chunk of the nays are only too happy to play tourist elsewhere. The implication of ones' ethics in that regard is of course an interesting case study on its' own.
AoD
And of course, lest I remind everyone that a good chunk of the nays are only too happy to play tourist elsewhere. The implication of ones' ethics in that regard is of course an interesting case study on its' own.
AoD
Last edited:
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Rum punch the bestest of drinks? That is dangerously close to the "hip hop isn't music" idea on here last month. 
You've clearly never had a Negroni or Pimm's Cup.
You've clearly never had a Negroni or Pimm's Cup.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
No problem. Maybe you could show me what's good around town when I take my annual trip this winter, this time to Barbados where I've wanted to go depuis longtemps.
Euphoria
Active Member
I genuinely worry about missing a big opportunity here, if we don't bid for either 2024 or 2028. There really is a great energy in the lead up, during, and after an Olympics. I attended soccer and volleyball games during the Pan Am games and was blown away by how exciting and well run the events were. Most of the work was done by volunteers with a passion for athletics and sport. I visited Barcelona in the aftermath of the Olympics and saw the transformation of the city and the excitement of the locals. Much as I want all of the infrastructure that an Olympics can bring, it's ultimately about inspiring people to strive for excellence. While we have to be careful about expenditures, the purpose of an Olympics isn't a simple dollars and cents calculation. Paris plans to put almost no public money towards the Olympics and expects to pay for most of it using $2.9 billion from television rights and private sponsorships. Surely that kind of money from private sources could go a long way to funding the kinds of projects most of us want to see built, and it would make them happen sooner. Much as I see value in thinking through whether to bid very critically and carefully, I worry that if voices like Rink Rat or animatronic carry the day, we'll really have shot ourselves in the foot on this one. Even the exercise of bidding for 2008 had tremendous value for the city. It forced us to think of a bigger vision for the city's development and sparked Waterfront Toronto. I remember when the City took over responsibility for redeveloping the waterfront from the Feds and the Toronto Harbour Commision. It was in the context of an Olympic bid. It was, animatronic. And the bid's vision included much of what we want to see in the Portlands. It even included burying the Gardner, an idea that most of us have given up on. You simply won't get the same public will and support for infrastructure projects from senior levels of government without the push of an Olympics. It sets a hard deadline on an event that involves athletes and draws interest from across the country. Over the next month, there will be a war of ideas over whether to bid. I hope that the naysayers on here aren't playing games, because a bid going forward is hardly assured. The letter of intent due Sept. 15 just gets the ball rolling. There's a lot of work to do after that and the bid can always be revoked. If we get to the vote, we'll be up against Paris and L.A. Again, no assurances, so let's try to get the vision right, and if it is, push like hell.
Tewder
Senior Member
Let me get this straight, now you're worried about too much tourism in Toronto? First the games will hurt tourism and now they'll destroy the authenticity of our city through the shear magnitude of the tourist onslaught that will ensue? Wow, talk about covering your bases!
I don't want to kill your island buzz so let me save you the time and we can all just assume that you disagree with everything I've said.
christiesplits
Senior Member
My gut instinct is that Tory passes on the Olympics bid, and favours the cheaper, less complex Expo bid. I think much like the Gardiner decision, he'll say he "listened to all the options" and came up with a "pragmatic, facts-based decision" *cough* with the Expo bid being a good compromise. And much like his Gardiner decision, I think his main concern is Ford Nation in 2018. Ford would paint the Olympics bid as a wasteful spending orgy by "out-of-touch, downtown elitists." I think unlike previous bids where the Olympic opposition has been the left wing "Bread not Circuses" types, this time it will come from right-wing talk radio, Toronto Sun, and the Fords, who will portray it as big government "lining their coffers" and ripping off the taxpayer.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Except it would seem that support for the Games is the highest out in the burbs - this is the kind of thing that would cleave the FN base.
AoD
Euphoria
Active Member
While I personally see a lot of advantages in an Expo, the Feds have stated that they won't support one. We don't have national membership to the Bureau of International Expositions. No, for the foreseeable future, the Olympics is our shot at a major city makeover. It's important to realize in all the negative press about the Montreal Olympic experience and the failed Boston bid that both of those cities already had their big civic do-overs, Boston with the Big Dig, and Montreal with Expo 67, which created subways, islands with parks, and underground expressways. Boston's downtown is built out. Montreal already got in the big infrastructure improvements through Expo. Really, Toronto is the city with the lagging transit infrastructure, a huge contaminated port, and a relatively low level of tourism.
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
Happy to, if I'm still around.
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
You're mistaking me for someone else. I don't think that the Games particularly help or hurt long-run tourism. They've helped Barcelona, I think. But they haven't really helped many other places. I just quoted an anti-Games and anti-tourist article. Really, I'm all about the cost and the silliness of building billion-dollar stadiums.
I don't want to kill your island buzz so let me save you the time and we can all just assume that you disagree with everything I've said.
I actually liked the article from U of T and it was nice to see the planner so jazzed about the way his plan came together. The West Donlands has been really done right and things did get accelerated to some extent by the Pan Ams. My biggest issue with the Village was that it was going to dump a ton of condos on the market, in a market that needs more inventory like it needs a hole in the head. But, from 5 years+ ago perspective, I also thought we were going to have a pretty major downturn in the Toronto housing market that would make those condos a real millstone around our necks, and Dundee Kilmer did a good job in not overbuilding. We'll see whether they get out of the project whole once they've developed the other (4? 5? 6?) buildings yet to be built, but it was a nice boost to them to get the government money to get them started.
The poppycock about Mattamy and UTSC is hilarious, though. There's a reason there's no velodromes in North America -- it's a hugely expensive niche sport North Americans don't play. They keep touting the, '2nd (or 3rd, depending on the source: there must be one in Mexico as well as LA) international-standards velodrome in North America'. THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT -- NOBODY WANTS THEM. They're big, bulky, and pretty much good for one thing: track cycling. The number of people that seem to be able to look at that picture of a cycling track and the stands around them and say, "Oh, look -- a multi-use badminton and volleyball court for the Milton community, with a nice Siberian fir and Nordic pine raised wall to keep the volleyballs from getting into the stands!" Oy.
And the picture of the pool is of... a climbing wall. Because we just built the most overbuilt new student pool in the history of university pools!
Luckily, we'll be able to use it for an Olympics... oh. No, we're going to waste more money on a new aquatics centre because Scarborough is 'too far' from the Portlands.
Thank you for paying for the renovation of my rugby pitch, though.
Last edited:
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
Rum punch the bestest of drinks? That is dangerously close to the "hip hop isn't music" idea on here last month.
You've clearly never had a Negroni or Pimm's Cup.
My personal policy is drink the best version of the national drink wherever you are. Negronis are for the Riviera, Pimm's for polo grounds or London garden parties, but in the Caribbean you need to stick to rum-based drinks. Last year it was Campari, but mostly pastis.
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
Sorry for the off-topic replies. To bring the thread (and me) back on topic: I was pretty interested in the NatPost article from the front page links today:
http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/2024-olympic-games-toronto-boston
Reading through the lines, I think the writer thinks that Tory is trying to keep things low key in order to keep the anti-Olympics side from organizing, so he can spring a 'grand surprise' mid-September. Hard to believe that a bid is far enough along to allow for that, but maybe there's a bigger 'skunk works' project in the pipeline.
http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/2024-olympic-games-toronto-boston
Reading through the lines, I think the writer thinks that Tory is trying to keep things low key in order to keep the anti-Olympics side from organizing, so he can spring a 'grand surprise' mid-September. Hard to believe that a bid is far enough along to allow for that, but maybe there's a bigger 'skunk works' project in the pipeline.
animatronic
Senior Member
http://NoTO2024.ca seems to have beaten him to the punch.