[Tewder]

Not such a 'secret' at all really. We just hosted the PanAms and people have been discussing the Olympics for Toronto for months now, including the mayor.

Add your like and send a message to city council that the olympics would be an amazing and historic event for this city: https://www.facebook.com/Toronto2024

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

While I personally see a lot of advantages in an Expo, the Feds have stated that they won't support one. We don't have national membership to the Bureau of International Expositions. No, for the foreseeable future, the Olympics is our shot at a major city makeover. It's important to realize in all the negative press about the Montreal Olympic experience and the failed Boston bid that both of those cities already had their big civic do-overs, Boston with the Big Dig, and Montreal with Expo 67, which created subways, islands with parks, and underground expressways. Boston's downtown is built out. Montreal already got in the big infrastructure improvements through Expo. Really, Toronto is the city with the lagging transit infrastructure, a huge contaminated port, and a relatively low level of tourism.

You say you live in downtown Toronto, and yet you compare its growth unfavourably over the last 20+ years to Montreal and Boston? For Pete's sake! Even in the part you slag, the Port and environs, we've seen a hugely successful airport revitalization, more condos than you can count, new parks, colleges, office buildings, entertainment. Ripley's, Steamwhistle and Roundhouse Park, the ACC, SouthCore, CityPlace. You might not like all of those new things. Heck, you might not like any of them, for all I know. But to say Toronto needs an Olympics because we're not growing like Montreal and Boston is stupefying.

 

[Euphoria]

My comments have nothing to do with population growth and condo development in TO, both of which have been huge. The issue is that we don't have the infrastructure to support it, and I don't just mean roads and subways. Boston has far more universities, colleges, hospitals, and arguably cultural attractions for a city of about a fifth the size of TO. It also has a more extensive subway/commuter train network. Montreal has two thirds of TO's population, but its downtown expressways are buried (like Boston's), its subway system meets the needs of the population of the island, it has multiple art galleries, etc.

 

[Euphoria]

Hey, I love TO the way it is, warts and all, but we need to plan for it more like it's London, England than London, Ontario.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

My comments have nothing to do with population growth and condo development in TO, both of which have been huge. The issue is that we don't have the infrastructure to support it, and I don't just mean roads and subways. Boston has far more universities, colleges, hospitals, and arguably cultural attractions for a city of about a fifth the size of TO. It also has a more extensive subway/commuter train network. Montreal has two thirds of TO's population, but its downtown expressways are buried (like Boston's), its subway system meets the needs of the population of the island, it has multiple art galleries, etc.

Montreal is a fine city. Boston is a fine city. Both have more history than Toronto, as they're older.

Neither one, in 2015, can hold a candle to Toronto. I know that comes as a painful shock to the enormous number of people in Toronto who seem to hate their city. But to say Montreal is better than Toronto because of the travesty that is its expressway network is the ravings of a shut-in who has never been to Montreal. The fact that Montreal's 'buried' expressway cuts its most historic district off from its CBD, so that you can get quickly from the 20 to the oil refinery in the east end and you're saying that's an advantage?

Now, I have not been to Boston since the Big Dig was finished, so I can't comment. And it does well by its history. But let's count schools: Harvard, MIT, BC, BU... and... what? Private liberal arts colleges? That's versus UofT, York, Ryerson, OCAD, Glendon. (I might be missing some on both sides.) Let's count hospitals -- beyond doubt Boston has cutting edge teaching hospitals. But so does Toronto! UofT is a top 25 university in the English language world due in large part to TGH, Princess Maggie, Sick Kids, Western. And I'm not including places like St. Mike's or Sunnybrook which are very strong in their own right but not as affiliated with UofT.

http://www.spottedbylocals.com/blog/alpha-beta-and-gamma-cities/

I've made this rant over the past year or two on a number of UT threads, but apparently it needs to be said over and over: Toronto might have its flaws, but it is one of the top 10 or 15 cities worldwide. Its influence is huge, its growth is enormous.

We have no need for an Olympics to 'announce' ourselves, to 'boost growth' or 'to build infrastructure.' All of those things are happening right now.

The sole good argument for a Toronto Olympics, which MTown has made, is that it's worth the billions because it'll be a ton of fun. I disagree, but that's OK -- curmudgeons are allowed to believe we should spend money on things other than bread, circuses, and billion dollar track & field stadiums we'll never use again. But, please, quit with the 'woe is us' arguments for an Olympics. You might not want to acknowledge it, but you live in one of the top 15 cities of the world, and probably the best, most livable of those alpha cities.

Now, back to my rum punch...

 

[Johnny Au]

Glendon is part of York U.

Holland Bloorview Kids Rehabilitation Hospital is partially affiliated with U of T.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Now, I have not been to Boston since the Big Dig was finished, so I can't comment. And it does well by its history. But let's count schools: Harvard, MIT, BC, BU... and... what? Private liberal arts colleges? That's versus UofT, York, Ryerson, OCAD, Glendon. (I might be missing some on both sides.) Let's count hospitals -- beyond doubt Boston has cutting edge teaching hospitals. But so does Toronto! UofT is a top 25 university in the English language world due in large part to TGH, Princess Maggie, Sick Kids, Western. And I'm not including places like St. Mike's or Sunnybrook which are very strong in their own right but not as affiliated with UofT.

Not that it has anything to do with the games, but for the record, both Harvard and MIT are at the very top of the list - U of T isn't even in the top ten (yet), and the rest are not even on the radar. St. Mike's and Sunnybrook are both U of T affiliated teaching hospitals. Boston also has a fairly strong biotech/biomedical cluster - likely stronger than ours. Dismiss all of that at your peril.

And on the matter of global ranking - we are an Alpha - we used to be an Alpha+ at the same level of Sydney. Not that it meant a lot necessarily, but we would do well to study how they have advanced themselves. They certainly have no trouble with demonstrating their quality of life and their innovations to the global audience.

AoD

 

[animatronic]

Hey, I love TO the way it is, warts and all, but we need to plan for it more like it's London, England than London, Ontario.

I would suggest that we are rather unlike both of them, and should aspire to be neither of them.

 

[LNahid2000]

My comments have nothing to do with population growth and condo development in TO, both of which have been huge. The issue is that we don't have the infrastructure to support it, and I don't just mean roads and subways. Boston has far more universities, colleges, hospitals, and arguably cultural attractions for a city of about a fifth the size of TO. It also has a more extensive subway/commuter train network. Montreal has two thirds of TO's population, but its downtown expressways are buried (like Boston's), its subway system meets the needs of the population of the island, it has multiple art galleries, etc.

Boston is not 1/5th of the size of Toronto. You can't just compare city populations like that when Toronto has amalgamated and Boston has not. Boston's metropolitan area is about 85% of Toronto's.

I was in Boston a couple of weeks ago and found it to be far more boring than Toronto. And try actually using the MBTA rather than just looking at lines on a map. You'll LOVE the TTC after using the MBTA for a weekend.

 

[salsa]

Montreal is a fine city. Boston is a fine city. Both have more history than Toronto, as they're older.

Neither one, in 2015, can hold a candle to Toronto. I know that comes as a painful shock to the enormous number of people in Toronto who seem to hate their city. But to say Montreal is better than Toronto because of the travesty that is its expressway network is the ravings of a shut-in who has never been to Montreal. The fact that Montreal's 'buried' expressway cuts its most historic district off from its CBD, so that you can get quickly from the 20 to the oil refinery in the east end and you're saying that's an advantage?

Toronto also has a downtown expressway that cuts off a bunch of neighbourhoods from each other. In Montreal at least it's buried underground as Euphoria pointed out, so how is it that they have it worse than us?

Now, I have not been to Boston since the Big Dig was finished, so I can't comment. And it does well by its history. But let's count schools: Harvard, MIT, BC, BU... and... what? Private liberal arts colleges? That's versus UofT, York, Ryerson, OCAD, Glendon. (I might be missing some on both sides.)

Boston has two of the top universities in the world and higher student enrolment than TO. We have a couple of good schools, the rest are second-rate suburban campuses. But bravo that you can count with your fingers that we have more schools (assuming that's even true), therefore education in Toronto is superior to Boston according to you.

 

[animatronic]

To bring this back on point, how would the Olympics change the standing of our universities? If we wanted to spend $100m to improve then, is it more effective to fund them directly or hold a sporting event and hope for intangible benefits?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Neither examples cited are public universities, and besides this was intended as a response to claims that was slightly inaccurate.

As to Boston - it is a rather uptight, overly cautious and dare I say smug town with a bit of a bubble mentality, leveraging on past glories successfully but otherwise somewhat static. Not our better, but it would be foolish to discount their strengths.

But let's count schools: Harvard, MIT, BC, BU... and... what?

And for crying out loud, if one is going to make a list, shouldn't at least one do a bit more research?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_metropolitan_Boston

Surely you have heard of Northeastern and Tufts.

AoD

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Neither examples cited are public universities, and besides this was intended as a response to claims that was slightly inaccurate.

As to Boston - it is a rather uptight, overly cautious and dare I say smug town with a bit of a bubble mentality, leveraging on past glories successfully but otherwise somewhat static. Not our better, but it would be foolish to discount their strengths.



And for crying out loud, if one is going to make a list, shouldn't at least one do a bit more research?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_metropolitan_Boston

Surely you have heard of Northeastern and Tufts.

AoD

As you said, it was a reply/rant, not a comprehensive comparison. And, as you yourself alluded to, the private school/hospital dynamic in the US is obviously very, very different than Toronto.

Thank you for understanding the point and not nitpicking.

For Salsa: I was protesting the use of Montreal's expressways as a symbol/argument of why Montreal is superior to Toronto on traffic infrastructure due to its buried crosstown. I was not trying to say the Gardiner was anything but a travesty itself, but seriously, anyone driving through the crumbling bridge, tunnel, and flyover layout of Montreal cannot think they've lessons to teach Toronto.

ETA: unless the lesson of Montreal is 'don't trust mafia-affiliated construction companies to use good concrete.' Which is more a cautionary tale.

 

[Lenser]

The endemic corruption in Montreal's building trades is well known. But I sometimes wonder why it cost overruns and construction delays (in terms of transit infrastructure at least) are so common in Toronto too; the fix is in, and everyone must get his cut. Certainly feels like that sometimes.

 

[pman]

Neither examples cited are public universities, and besides this was intended as a response to claims that was slightly inaccurate.

As to Boston - it is a rather uptight, overly cautious and dare I say smug town with a bit of a bubble mentality, leveraging on past glories successfully but otherwise somewhat static. Not our better, but it would be foolish to discount their strengths.



And for crying out loud, if one is going to make a list, shouldn't at least one do a bit more research?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_metropolitan_Boston

Surely you have heard of Northeastern and Tufts.

AoD

It's interesting that universities have entered this discussion. I think most reasonable people would agree that the size and quality of Boston's universities vastly outstrips that of Toronto's, and that the Boston's universities and research institutes have been a powerful driver of that city's sustainable competitive advantage and prosperity. Former NYC Mayor Bloomberg got it when he created a city-supported global competition to create a new STEM university in that city. Since we have limited dollars to invest, I wish we would think about spending them on something that would create long-term economic value as part of a serious reflection on how this city is going to make its way in the world. I've seen a number of "Hey, we're world class!" arguments in favour of throwing a one month Olympic party, and some arguments to the effect we could leverage the games to get higher levels of government to pay for infrastructure like a new expressway into downtown, but I haven't seen much evidence to suggest that hosting the games will give us much of a return on the massive investment they would entail. If we're going to use a mega project to try to mobilize federal and provincial funding and break our Council-created inability to ever do anything right, we should give some thought to selecting the right project.