I second that!!!!

Amazing news!. unexpected too!. does this mean the site is at the bottom??????. or just a portion of it?. last time i checked we were at about 4.5/5 stories below.
Awesome! :D :D
 
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thedeepend said:
what would be even cooler would be if the "unapologetically brash, in your face tower" was being designed by a highly accomplished and significant architect, and was being developed by a firm committed to quality construction materials.
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True, but we could have been tortured with another coma-inducing design by KPMB instead. They make accountants look interesting. I'd rather take my chances on this than another bore me to tears high quality effort by KPMB.
 
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khristopher said:
Intended and actual are two very different things. Look at Trump for example.
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My words in the posting you quoted were choosen carefully.

Although I'm not sure what the example is with trump regarding cladding material composition - I'm not aware of any change-orders (i.e. an actual change in exterior material plans, not an opinion or dislike of the colours).
 
isaidso said:
True, but we could have been tortured with another coma-inducing design by KPMB instead. They make accountants look interesting. I'd rather take my chances on this than another bore me to tears high quality effort by KPMB.
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i'd rather not 'take my chances' because:

a hack is a hack is a hack is a hack. nothing important, interesting, significant, or enduring can be done by B or C level architects. its like expecting Nickelback to somehow create Abbey Road. ie. never going to happen.

i find it truly baffling that people continue to defend things that are so obviously substandard, just because they are big. how low should we be setting the bar for architecture in this city? are we so desperate for 'tall towers' that we'll take anything, no matter how poorly conceived and constructed? if you're happy with having design-build no names defining the cityscape that's your choice, but please don't tell me we can't or shouldn't be trying to do better.

to my mind Canderel Stoneridge and their ilk (Uptown, BLU) have set in place a very frightening new paradigm: the bigger it is, the taller it is--the cheaper and shoddier it is going to end up looking.

the argument i would put to these developers is: if you can't afford to professionally finish a building at this scale-- don't build at that scale.

if you can't afford (or don't want to afford) the fees of a serious and inspired architect to build a building at this scale-- don't build at that scale. simple.

as for the endlessly boring debates about how boring KPMB and Diamond are--its a totally false choice. there are about two dozen options sitting between schlock like ROCP and the reserved neo-modernists like KPMB so why pretend we only have two choices?

for myself, i am totally agnostic when it comes to style. my issues are quality of vision and quality of construction. here's a list, just off the top of my head: 18 Yorkville, Minto Midtown, Casa, Mozo, Hudson, District Lofts, X2, Morgan, Lumiere.

what do they have in common? a much higher level of architectural inspiration and intelligence, and a much higher quality of materials and construction than the monstrous clunkers that schlockmeisters like Canderel et al are foisting on the city.
 
They haven't even built anything yet on this site...plus its happening whether or not any of us want to "take chances". Therefore wait and see, and perhaps stay positive, the renderings look good to me at least. No design will satisfy everyone.
 
thedeepend said:
as for the endlessly boring debates about how boring KPMB and Diamond are--its a totally false choice. there are about two dozen options sitting between schlock like ROCP and the reserved neo-modernists like KPMB so why pretend we only have two choices?

for myself, i am totally agnostic when it comes to style. my issues are quality of vision and quality of construction. here's a list, just off the top of my head: 18 Yorkville, Minto Midtown, Casa, Mozo, Hudson, District Lofts, X2, Morgan, Lumiere.

what do they have in common? a much higher level of architectural inspiration and intelligence, and a much higher quality of materials and construction than the monstrous clunkers that schlockmeisters like Canderel et al are foisting on the city.
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My sentiments exactly. Well said, thedeepend.
 
mckarisma said:
They haven't even built anything yet on this site...plus its happening whether or not any of us want to "take chances". Therefore wait and see, and perhaps stay positive, the renderings look good to me at least. No design will satisfy everyone.
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the renderings always look good--or at least sleek, gleamy, glamorous, shiny, blah blah, blah.....that's one of the problems.

and you're right 'no design will satisfy everyone'. but what i'm saying has nothing to do with personal taste. i'm talking about quality: quality of architect, of design intelligence, of materials and construction.

Juxtapose Minto Midtown with ROCP. both are 'quasi-retro' and traditional in their aspirations. both are employing vocabulary from the era of the classic skyscraper. yet, one is a great example of this language and the other is a dog. the reason? Minto's design is vastly better than ROCP. it's richer in detail, and far more elegant, refined and intelligent in its execution because Minto used high quality materials and Canderel used the cheapest stuff available.

Minto Midtown is everything that ROCP could have been--had the developers been willing to hire real architects, and pay for high quality materials and finishes.

but lets face reality: the reason these clunkers are getting built is because the developers refuse to hire talented (read: more expensive) architects to do the work. and they refuse to pay for premium materials.

as for Aura--what evidence is there that it's not going to be built to the same shoddy standard as their previous work--beyond a gleaming render?
 
Pehaps, you are right, but I personally dont find ROCP THAT horrible. Yes compared to Minto its not as pretty or well done, especially at ground level and the very top, but I dont find the materials to look horrible. On the Aura issue, I have no idea about how Aura will come out, but I would assume that due to prices being of a higher psf in Aura, that the quality demanded by those paying for these suites would be higher. I would also assume that the developer in not wanting to have a bunch of pissed off buyers would concede to using higher quality materials, as this isnt really the architects choice all the time, in the end its the developer who sets the budget. Lastly, The tower will be the flagship tower for Canderal and a showcase of their quality and will be viewed from all over the cit,y attracting quite the large amount of press and public attention, so I have HOPE (perhaps unreasonably) that for the sake of Candera'ls public relations, they would spend the bit more money on materials to gain some good press and public attention. Perhaps I am giving too much credit to us the public in our perception of quality, but on a project this big, public relations seems more important to me, and therefore bad press is to be avoided as more potential future buyers are paying closer attention. Guess we will have to wait and see... I do totally understand your concern though, and its not unwarranted.
 
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thedeepend said:
...but lets face reality: the reason these clunkers are getting built is because the developers refuse to hire talented (read: more expensive) architects to do the work. and they refuse to pay for premium materials...
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Although I won't let the developers entirely off the hook... The true reason is because stupid buyers that will take anything offered to them. If the public would vote with their wallets, and not buy the crap, then developers would have to build better. But what is the incentive for these developers? They can build broom closets, with a view of a brick wall, and make it out of styrofoam, charge $600psf and potential buyers will line up on the street for 3 weeks, hoping to gobble them up. You can't fight a ravenous consumer with art, quality, intelligence or reasoning.
 
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auraspecs.jpg


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That's an awful lot of old men staring at the site. Are they on a day trip from the retirement residence across Yonge Street or is Aura being built in Boca Raton Florida?
 
I think it's awesome that they let old people out to have a gander at a skyscraper site being excavated. Old people are people too.
 
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