[Bogtrotter]

the jays are affordable of you want to sit in the nose bleeds and watch the game on the jumbotron... not so much when you want to be in the lowerdeck.... still cheaper than trying to get good seats at Fenway, Yankee stadium, etc.

Yeh who wants to stare at the jumbo tron for 2-3 hours- one can do that at home and have free access to the fridge. For decent seats at Pro sports games the prices are outlandish these days. Two or three times a season I'll go out to a jays game and pay through the nose for lower level seats, but otherwise I don't find it worth it- I'd rather spend my money at other events. There are a lot of games and lets face it, half the time basball is watching a bunch of overpaid guys standing around scratching their testes. The dome is not the most comfortable venue for baseball either despite recent attempts at upgrades.

Another NHL team for the GTA? Yeh it would definitely work imho. Unfortunately the Maple Laughs and Buttman would not like it.

 

[sixrings]

I would think that we have probably hit the top of Sports ticket prices. The sobering reality for sports owners is that it is going to become increasingly difficult to get people into the stadiums. HDTV was the first blow and potentially 3D a second BLOW. Also at home can hear commentary and have whatever food you want without leaving your home. Its just not motivating to get to a sporting event anymore. That being said PLayoff tickets will always be wanted and probably demand twice the price they are asking. It may take some time but eventually ticket prices should start to fall otherwise we will continue to have less and less people at actual games. SOme people already suggest that the future is going to be played on sound studio stages with better camera angles. This way they can produce the best sports experience at home without the cost of a stadium. Thats a little far fetched if you ask me. But who knows. Anyways toronto is a city that will almost buy tickets to everything, the jays being the one exception. Actually Id buy jays tickets if it werent for the food prices. Baseball is the one sport I need to eat at the same time as watch. Oh it doesnt help that because the jays division they will never be in the playoffs which also makes me and many others not want to buy tickets.

 

[Jonny5]

Actually Id buy jays tickets if it werent for the food prices. Baseball is the one sport I need to eat at the same time as watch.

How true. It is countered a bit by the fact that you can get tickets for cheap if you don't mind the 500 level. The view of the tops of the city buildings is great. On the other hand, the food options themselves at Skydome suck, unless you enjoy tortilla chips with cheeze that comes out of a pump. Not like ACC is much better. I here BMO Field is better, but have never been.

Leaf tickets will have room to go up if they put together a cup contender team.

 

[nfitz]

I here BMO Field is better, but have never been.

I've always thought the selection of food at BMO Field was superb, given it's a sports stadium. There was an article in Toronto Life at the beginning of the season - http://www.torontolife.com/daily/da...mo-field-and-a-home-win-we-sample-the-former/ however it only looks at the new dishes, rather than those already on the menu. It's the same guys running the ACC, so I'd think it be similar ... but I still haven't checked out the ACC. Rogers Centre seemed pretty woeful on the food front last time I was there ... but I didn't spend a long time searching ... hmm, I still seemed to walk a long way before I found anything open though ...

 

[GenerationW]

I try to avoid paying stadium prices for food whenever possible. What a scam!

 

[nfitz]

I try to avoid paying stadium prices for food whenever possible. What a scam!

Agreed - but life doesn't always work like that. Easy enough for soccer or rugby game that's done and dusted in 2 hours. But the way a baseball game drags on these days ...

 

[Bogtrotter]

There is a sort 'market' area at the dome that has a bit more variety -Muddy York (?) I think it's called... it's a good idea anyway. I haven't had anything from there yet myself so I can't speak to quality. The food from the general concession stands is poor though, and from what I understand is often considered the worst among major league ballparks. I usualy get a dawg outside from a cart, or eat a meal before games to avoid the food there.

 

[Marko]

Professional athletes like movie stars are grossly overpaid to begin with. That's why you need to take out a mortgage to go to a Leaf or Blue Jay game and enjoy a beer and hotdog. Sure the tickets may be more reasonable...in the beginning. But hockey is a business and how long do you think the cheap tickets will last before they have to start paying the players inflated salaries? I don't think we can support another team. Accessibility is another issue. Everything is downtown, not for the people who live here but for the tourist. I'm surprised the Raptors have lasted this long.

The inflated salaries would be there from the outset. That said, and even though I am not a hockey fan in the least, the GTA could easily support another team.

Downsview and Mississauga are really the only places I could see making sense and in the case of the latter, more clearly separates the two teams where one remains the 'city's team' and the other becomes the '905's team'.

As for the Raptors, why would you be surprised they have lasted? The NBA is locked out right now because 21 of the 30 teams view the CBA as unworkable financially. The Raptors are one of the 9 remaining healthy teams that are able to turn a profit even though they have missed the playoffs for 3 years. Being part of both MLSE and the NBA gives them a financial footing that secondary NHL teams could only dream of. In fact, if you took the Raptors (in terms of revenues and profits) and put them in the NHL, they would come in second only to the Maple Leafs. That's how good this market is, that even a secondary NBA market and clearly lower tier team within the Toronto sports heirarchy can still do better than any other NHL team.

(NBA vs NHL comparison based on 2010 Forbes numbers - haven't seen the 2011 ones yet)

 

[Bogtrotter]

I haven't yet heard a compelling argument against a second NHL team in Toronto. Even the relatively sports complacent Los Angeles has two teams, and New York has- pretty much- three NHL teams. The hockey fan base is easily there In Toronto, in my view that's a no-brainer, and there would likely be significant corporate interest. The stumbling block is the NHL territorial ruling, which Balsillie tried hand and foot to get around. The bottom line is that the NHL does not want a second team in the Toronto area, especialy with Buttman at the healm- they seem intent on exploring every 1million plus market on the continent before Toronto.

 

[TOareaFan]

I haven't yet heard a compelling argument against a second NHL team in Toronto. Even the relatively sports complacent Los Angeles has two teams, and New York has- pretty much- three NHL teams. The hockey fan base is easily there In Toronto, in my view that's a no-brainer, and there would likely be significant corporate interest. The stumbling block is the NHL territorial ruling, which Balsillie tried hand and foot to get around. The bottom line is that the NHL does not want a second team in the Toronto area, especialy with Buttman at the healm- they seem intent on exploring every 1million plus market on the continent before Toronto.

I am pretty sure that if someone came along with enough money to:

1) pay the league the $200 - $300 million they want for a second team in the market; and
2) pay MLSE a similar (or larger) number for splitting their market; and
3) pay for the construction of an NHL calibre arena (probably another $400 - $500 million) in the area

then we could have a second NHL team in this market......

....of course if the upfront cost of an NHL team here is around $1B it become a little bit less of a "can't miss" proposition!

 

[TOareaFan]

The inflated salaries would be there from the outset. That said, and even though I am not a hockey fan in the least, the GTA could easily support another team.

Downsview and Mississauga are really the only places I could see making sense and in the case of the latter, more clearly separates the two teams where one remains the 'city's team' and the other becomes the '905's team'.

As for the Raptors, why would you be surprised they have lasted? The NBA is locked out right now because 21 of the 30 teams view the CBA as unworkable financially. The Raptors are one of the 9 remaining healthy teams that are able to turn a profit even though they have missed the playoffs for 3 years. Being part of both MLSE and the NBA gives them a financial footing that secondary NHL teams could only dream of. In fact, if you took the Raptors (in terms of revenues and profits) and put them in the NHL, they would come in second only to the Maple Leafs. That's how good this market is, that even a secondary NBA market and clearly lower tier team within the Toronto sports heirarchy can still do better than any other NHL team.

(NBA vs NHL comparison based on 2010 Forbes numbers - haven't seen the 2011 ones yet)

It is amazing ( ) what a huge TV deal does for revenues in a league.....you don't actually need to sell that many tickets to make ends meet! Yet, Bettman gets criticized for his never ending efforts to position the NHL to be attractive for a similar TV deal.

 

[Bogtrotter]

I am pretty sure that if someone came along with enough money to:

1) pay the league the $200 - $300 million they want for a second team in the market; and
2) pay MLSE a similar (or larger) number for splitting their market; and
3) pay for the construction of an NHL calibre arena (probably another $400 - $500 million) in the area

then we could have a second NHL team in this market......

....of course if the upfront cost of an NHL team here is around $1B it become a little bit less of a "can't miss" proposition!

Yeh but I think the market itself is there, it's the conditions placed on start-up that is the deal breaker. It's an under served market for top tier hockey, another team in the GTA or golden horshoe would probably create more interest- imagine a Toronto subway series. If Chicago can handle two basebal teams one would think Toronto could fill two pro hockey arenas.

 

[Thanos]

It is amazing ( ) what a huge TV deal does for revenues in a league.....you don't actually need to sell that many tickets to make ends meet! Yet, Bettman gets criticized for his never ending efforts to position the NHL to be attractive for a similar TV deal.

It's because many diehard hockey fans do not understand the business side of the sport. They get emotionally involved and can't think clearly regarding the economic aspects. In most successful leagues ticket revenue is a small percentage of overall revenue.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yeh but I think the market itself is there, it's the conditions placed on start-up that is the deal breaker. It's an under served market for top tier hockey, another team in the GTA or golden horshoe would probably create more interest- imagine a Toronto subway series. If Chicago can handle two basebal teams one would think Toronto could fill two pro hockey arenas.

I think it all comes down to price.....and while I have no doubt there are enough fans to fill another rink....I am less than convinced that there are enough of them willing/able to pay the sort of prices that would offer a return to someone investing $1B.

So, like many things, it really comes down to how the questioned is phrased as to what the answer is.

Could Toronto sellout another hockey rink? That is probably easy (I say probably because there is not a ton of evidence from the non-NHL hockey in the area that Toronto fans are hockey fans as opposed to Leaf fans).

If another NHL team came to Toronto and charged 1.5 to 2 times what the Leafs charged, would they sell out? Much, much, tougher for me to say yes to that.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Similar pricing or slightly higher I would wager yes, I think there is room for 40,000-45,000 tickets sold at that rate for NHL hockey in the GTA. If we're looking at upwards of double the going rate, well yeh I have a feeling that would be tough to sustain long term- if indefinitely then I have my doubts. Just musing here.. but I wonder how many seats the Leafs could fill regularly if the ACC were larger?