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The REAL
New Member
The problem with the waterfront East plans is that it can't afford to wait anymore. The amount of condos going up from QQeast down to Bayside is alarming and there's no TTC service around that area except for the 6 Bay bus. The "if you build it they will come" is being applied here and the QQEAST LRT needs to be built now. I seen a recent article saying that they're going to begin construction on the eastern portal going into Union station with a bigger entrance going to the underground streetcar loop. So we'll see how this all goes.
drum118
Superstar
The extension was wanted by Waterfront Toronto in 2007 because of the developments and more so today.
Until they fill in the Jarvis Slip, QQ can't be extended to the New Cherry St. That is on the books to happen in the next year.
The Portals and the entrance to the tunnel is TTC responsibility and their cost to do it. There is no money in TTC budget to do the work now or the last 13 years after the EA was approved at all levels. Until the report goes to council to get funding to take the design up to 100% along with a funding timetable to build the portals if it gets approve, it a pipe dream of what it could look like in the future.
The rest of the extension is Waterfront cost with TTC supplying the trackwork which TTC doesn't have the funds to do it. TTC has talked about using buses in the guideway which is standard for TTC until funding of the tracks is obtain.
The City keeps saying the QQ is its top priority project for the last 10 years, but keep pushing it down the road.
The earliest QQ could be up and running if a tender is awarded next year is 2028/29 compared to the current timetable of 2030-35
Current plans call for the existing QQ station to remain as is which is a slap in the face of everyone, let alone the accessibility community being stuck with one elevator when it should be 4.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
That’s just insane. Akin to me saying my family food budget has been rolled back by ignoring the furnace and roof replacement. If we’re this level of screwed we should have never built the LRT.
rbt
Senior Member
Ford's 4 subway extensions are going to create some interesting financial issues in the future too. There's around $150M/year in subsidy to operate them and so far it appears the province expects TTC to cover most of that gap (similar contract to Eglinton and Finch, York gets part of the Yonge extension bill) and do it without a property tax increase.
felix123
Active Member
We're the economic engine of the province and the largest contributor to Canada's GDP. If Toronto can't afford to run a measly LRT line, then we should just give up on municipal government. Municipalities are expected to collect substantial revenue and fund their own capital and operating expenditures. It seems like this model is failing for us. Toronto isn't a flashy city and has to get by on utilitarian infrastructure at best.
So higher orders of government, provincial and federal, should probably pay for these large projects instead, unless local government can collect sufficient revenue (which we cannot).
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
I assume this shift of cash is to achieve better service outside of the budget cycle. I'd assume the 2024 budget will bring more funding for both existing transit and Line 5. Creative budgeting!
nfitz
Superstar
I suspect it's more a negotiating tactic than anything else (akin to when they proposed closing Line 4 to save money in the 2000s). And don't forget the only funding they've recommitted to expansion is the 2023 budget for operating the Crosstown - which won't happen.
Ontario's failure to provide any additional funding for transit operation in 2023 is causing issues for large transit systems. At the same time, Ontario is yet to spend all it's special Covid funding from the feds, and is now running a surplus. The solution is clear.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
If European countries subsidize their cities' public transit, why can't Canada. Even the airlines and airports in Canada get subsidies of some sort.
nfitz
Superstar
In these small European countries, transit is under the auspices of the national government - not local government.
In Canada, it's the responsibility of the provinces. And they do subsidize operations. Meanwhile the feds subsidize capital investment.
Though I'm not aware of much subsidy in Canada (outside of Covid) of airlines and major airports. I believe Pearson is supposed to make money, or at least break even; including capital investment.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
In Ontario, the province subsidizes Metrolinx (GO Transit & PRESTO) operations. Not much for the TTC, nor any other municipalities' operations.
The only direct operational funding the TTC gets right now from governments other than the city is a small slice of the gas tax from the province, traditionally split between operations and capital, which last year amounted to about $186-million. The province hasn’t contributed serious money to TTC operations since the era of then-premier Mike Harris.
From link.Which means as we can expect even less from the gas tax as we switch over to electric vehicles.
See link for the breakdown of 2022-23 Gas Tax Funding by Municipality
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mrgrieves
Active Member
I read that part of the St. Clair streetcar ROW will be closed for maintenance projects. Streetcars will be replaced with buses that will run on the street. Sounds like a disaster. Could this conceivably also happen to the Crosstown (assuming one day it opens)?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Jeez. Isn't that ROW less than a dozen years old? What could possibly take it out of service?
drum118
Superstar
Built 2006-2010 making it due for track replacement now the tanks no long run on it.
mrgrieves
Active Member
dont think it has to do with track replacement. has to do with water main lines and overhead wire