[AlvinofDiaspar]

Look at the whole Scarborough RT fiasco right now. We are talking about replacing the deteriorating SRT with a costly subway, which is politically difficult.

Wasting a billion to build the Sheppard LRT then replacing it with a subway 20 years later when it becomes overcrowded (which would require closing the LRT during construction because of the plan to put the Don Mills end of the LRT underground) is a lot more expensive than simply building the Sheppard subway extension to begin with. The difference with replacing the old streetcar system with the Yonge and Bloor subways is that the old streetcar lines were built in the 19th century when Toronto was not a very big city and then was replaced with a subway almost 100 years later.

Except that a) there is no evidence your line will be overcrowded in 20 years for one, b) the whole SRT fiasco has to do with the use of non-standard technologies with no economies of scale with the rest of the system, and not the lack of capacity per se.

The issue isn't the age of the old streetcar lines - it is, and should always be whether ridership justifies replacing it.

AoD

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Except that a) there is no evidence your line will be overcrowded in 20 years for one, b) the whole SRT fiasco has to do with the use of non-standard technologies with no economies of scale with the rest of the system, and not the lack of capacity per se.

The issue isn't the age of the old streetcar lines - it is, and should always be whether ridership justifies replacing it.

AoD

Well do you think the ridership north of Eglinton justifies a subway on Don Mills to Finch? Because I can tell you many people would switch to a Don Mills Finch station rather then RHC(in the future) so the ridership that is there now could increase.

 

[diminutive]

I think that the DRL tunnel along Eglinton from ET Seton Park to Don Mills will be very steep to make it up the ravine from below the riverbed of the Don into the station at Don Mills. Either that, or we have to completely reconfigure the planned Crosstown station box to be, itself, very deep to accommodate the DRL. Of course, this means that the Ferrand stop will have to be axed (not altogether a bad thing) and the Crosstown portal would emerge somewhere near Wynford.

I imagine the DRL route slightly differently, at least in terms of its vertical alignment, than you're describing. I would have it run entirely at surface or above ground through Thorncliffe Park and crossing a bridge to over the Don Valley and ET Seton. The bridge itself would run at a rough diagonal from Wicksteed to a portal on the north west corner of the OSC parking lot, entering in a stacked fashion, and transitioning into the station right below the surface of Don Mills.

I don't think it would make sense to tunnel under the Don Valley here. I think that's a huge advantage of cutting through Thorncliffe, the relative ease of constructing the entire section from Eglinton to East York above ground.

I'm also not sure why people think this would spell the end of any northward DRL. To begin with, northern corridors aren't limited to Don Mills. The DVP, the rail corridor to Agincourt, the Richmond Hill Corridor and Vic Park seem like equally credible routes, depending on what the goals and constraints of the line end up being. More over, it could just as easily jink back onto Don Mills anyways.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Look at the whole Scarborough RT fiasco right now. We are talking about replacing the deteriorating SRT with a costly subway, which is politically difficult.

Wasting a billion to build the Sheppard LRT then replacing it with a subway 20 years later when it becomes overcrowded (which would require closing the LRT during construction because of the plan to put the Don Mills end of the LRT underground) is a lot more expensive than simply building the Sheppard subway extension to begin with. The difference with replacing the old streetcar system with the Yonge and Bloor subways is that the old streetcar lines were built in the 19th century when Toronto was not a very big city and then was replaced with a subway almost 100 years later.

I hope you realize that for Sheppard LRT to be overcrowded in 20 years, ridership growth on that line would have to enormoisly outpace that of everywhere else on the system (including downtown). I can guarantee you that won't be happening.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

EDIT: nevermind.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Thing is that there are almost no intercepting bus routes along Don Mills. the only riders along the corridor are using the Don Mills bus, and no riders would really be intercepted. Don Mills north of Eglinton is almost exclusively a local corridor, and would be just as well served by LRT as subway. The Don Mills LRT should interline with Eglinton anyway, as well as Jane. (instead of 1/2 the trains turning back, 1/2 would go up don mills)

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Some of the TTCs most used routes cross Don Mills or would likely connect to a Don Mills Subway (daily ridership):

York Mills -25,000
Finch East - 44,000
Lawrence East -36,000
Don Mills - 38,000
Sheppard (soon LRT)- 44,000
Steeles East - 28,000

This is more than we see on the Spadina Subway, where the only routes moving more than 10,000 people are
Finch (Soon LRT) - 44,000
Sheapprd West -15,000
Steeles West - 29,800
Wilson - 25,000
Lawrence East - 23,000
York University Rocket - 20,000

If these numbers are any indication, a Don Mills subway would be extremely successful. Even more so than the Spadina Subway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Some of the TTCs most used routes cross Don Mills or would likely connect to a Don Mills Subway (daily ridership):

York Mills -25,000
Finch East - 44,000
Lawrence East -36,000
Don Mills - 38,000
Sheppard (soon LRT)- 44,000
Steeles East - 28,000

This is more than we see on the Spadina Subway, where the only routes moving more than 10,000 people are
Finch (Soon LRT) - 44,000
Sheapprd West -15,000
Steeles West - 29,800
Wilson - 25,000
Lawrence East - 23,000
York University Rocket - 20,000

If these numbers are any indication, a Don Mills subway would be extremely successful. Even more so than the Spadina Subway.

Don Mills should be going to Steeles IMO.

 

[Adjei]

It should stop at Seneca College, any push further up and you have York Region demanding it go to Highway 7.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It should stop at Seneca College, any push further up and you have York Region demanding it go to Highway 7.

I agree and disagree...I want cars of the road, you do to right? But at the same, this is supposed to about the residents of TORONTO not Markham, Thornhill and Richmond Hill.

 

[diminutive]

I agree and disagree...I want cars of the road, you do to right? But at the same, this is supposed to about the residents of TORONTO not Markham, Thornhill and Richmond Hill.

Capital projects in the GTA are almost entirely funded by the Province... The TTC is subsidized by Toronto tax payers, yes, but the bulk of that subsidy goes to feeder and surface routes that operate in Toronto.

As for where it would end, I'd like to see the line terminate in the Buttonville redevelopment. The 404/407 area is a big employment area, and that's projected to be a really large development. Makes sense to provide transit to it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Capital projects in the GTA are almost entirely funded by the Province... The TTC is subsidized by Toronto tax payers, yes, but the bulk of that subsidy goes to feeder and surface routes that operate in Toronto.

As for where it would end, I'd like to see the line terminate in the Buttonville redevelopment. The 404/407 area is a big employment area, and that's projected to be a really large development. Makes sense to provide transit to it.

That's a long subway line you want. And yes you are right about funding but, many people in Toronto are still under served by any type of rapid transit while RHC will get a one seat ride downtown.

 

[Canadian Chocho]

Well do you think the ridership north of Eglinton justifies a subway on Don Mills to Finch? Because I can tell you many people would switch to a Don Mills Finch station rather then RHC(in the future) so the ridership that is there now could increase.

This. In fact the Viva Green already goes to the subway at Don Mills, but it isn't very popular because it doesn't go directly downtown. Thats why the Viva Pink exists, which catches all the Markham commuters along Hwy 7 and goes along Yonge to get to Ficnh Sation. If you had a subaway going downtown from Don Mills, I'd bet A LOT of people wuld just go there instead of getting to the Yonge line.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Scarborough subway will probably become the main subway point for Markham after it opens, and they Yonge subway will be prefered if it gets extended unless the DRL goes all the way to highway 7. (which will be very, very, very far out)

Really they should be using Stouffville GO.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Scarborough subway will probably become the main subway point for Markham after it opens, and they Yonge subway will be prefered if it gets extended unless the DRL goes all the way to highway 7. (which will be very, very, very far out)

Really they should be using Stouffville GO.

I saw one proposal with yonge going to Major Mac on both sides. Vaughan wanted to extend the Spadina line to Jane/Major Mac, I saw it in the star about 5 years ago. Also another fake map on here had the Yonge line going to Major Mac. Again though, I want to spread the Yonge ridership out among newer north South line. The VCC extension, we can all admit, is not enough.


I personally think the Yonge line should be expanded to 4 tracks.

 

[skylyte]

I saw one proposal with yonge going to Major Mac on both sides. Vaughan wanted to extend the Spadina line to Jane/Major Mac, I saw it in the star about 5 years ago. Also another fake map on here had the Yonge line going to Major Mac. Again though, I want to spread the Yonge ridership out among newer north South line. The VCC extension, we can all admit, is not enough.


I personally think the Yonge line should be expanded to 4 tracks.

Yonge and Major Mac would be a great terminus for the Yonge extension. It would allow for the development of the Hillcrest Mall lands and that plaza across the street. A VIVA BRT linking the two lines (Yonge and Spadina) via Major Mac would probably be busy early on and would allow Richmond HIll to develop a true downtown like Markham, Vaughan and MCC.