[ehlow]

Right but we both know this is not true, its an underground lrt.

ha ha... you have to realize that many of these politicians & the average person doesn't really know transit technology as well as us. Most don't know the difference between an underground LRT and a subway. Try asking some people that don't follow transit closely.

When Rob Ford says "subways subways subways" he really means "underground transit"

 

[nfitz]

The thing is the "cancelling all LRT" + "burying Eglinton as much as possible" quotes very much leaves open the interpretation that by making Eglinton underground, it is transformed into a "subway" rather than count as an "LRT", even if it keeps the same vehicle.

He hasn't mentioned "burying Eglinton as much as possible" during the election campaign. Only the one major Toronto project .. (east-west subway south of Bloor). The White Paper is a longer term plan than just the upcoming Parliament (presumably 2014-2018).

Anyways this has been debated forever. In my opinion it's simply not clear, they have made some statements, but I doubt anybody knows for sure what will happen if Hudak wins.

Generally what get's delivered is less than promised. And we are being promised very little during the campaign.

 

[ksun]

ha ha... you have to realize that many of these politicians & the average person doesn't really know transit technology as well as us. Most don't know the difference between an underground LRT and a subway. Try asking some people that don't follow transit closely.

When Rob Ford says "subways subways subways" he really means "underground transit"

true.
but for ordinary people, what matter more is whether it is weather proof underground without stopping for traffic lights, not techonological difference.
For myself, there is transit stopping for traffic lights and that which doesn't. The 501 which stops every 100 meters tells me it is not rapid transit.

 

[nfitz]

The 501 which stops every 100 meters tells me it is not rapid transit.

No one says it is. But none of the new LRT lines have stops every 100 metres, and none are in mixed traffic.

501 does quite nicely between Humber Loop and Parkside, where the stops are further apart, and it's not in mixed traffic, doing the 2.3 km in only 6 minutes ... an average of 23 km/hr even in the worst of traffic. Compare to the 2.3 km from Ossington to Roncesvalle, which is scheduled to take 9 minutes (15 km/hr) ... and often will take longer.

And then there's the 2.3 km from Church to Bathurst ... it's scheduled as 15 minutes (9 km/hr) and 17 minutes westbound in PM rush (8 km/hr). And we all know it can be slower than that!

 

[BurlOak]

He hasn't mentioned "burying Eglinton as much as possible" during the election campaign. Only the one major Toronto project .. (east-west subway south of Bloor). The White Paper is a longer term plan than just the upcoming Parliament (presumably 2014-2018).

The absence of any mention of Eglinton is somewhat interesting and I do not imagine he can ignore commenting on it for the entire campaign. I would guess that he is just breaking down with transportation policy into smaller, bite sizes pieces. That we he would get more press coverage than if were all said in one day.

 

[Johnny Au]

I always wondered if people in San Francisco, Buffalo, Newark, Calgary, and Edmonton consider the underground portions of their respective LRT systems subways.

 

[nfitz]

The absence of any mention of Eglinton is somewhat interesting and I do not imagine he can ignore commenting on it for the entire campaign. I would guess that he is just breaking down with transportation policy into smaller, bite sizes pieces. That we he would get more press coverage than if were all said in one day.

It's unfortunate the media wasted their questions at the event, trying to nail down the alignment, which Hudak had no chance of ever answering, rather than simply asking "What about Eglinton".

 

[ehlow]

I always wondered if people in San Francisco, Buffalo, Newark, Calgary, and Edmonton consider the underground portions of their respective LRT systems subways.

Also Boston & Philly. Boston's underground LRT/streetcar is actually considered to be the first "subway" in North America. However above we were talking about a fully underground LRT.

 

[salsa]

Hudak can't change it now. Too far gone.

He can still change the above ground section, which hasn't even started.

 

[TOareaFan]

The thing is the "cancelling all LRT" + "burying Eglinton as much as possible" quotes very much leaves open the interpretation that by making Eglinton underground, it is transformed into a "subway" rather than count as an "LRT", even if it keeps the same vehicle.

perhaps the nuance in language is that I can't find a quote where Hudak said he would cancel all LRTs....I have seen where he said he would cancel "LRTs in the suburbs".

Perhaps, then, he does not view Eglinton as a suburban route...that he views mid-town as very much a part of the city and that he plans to continue with it but would rather see as much (all?) of it buried as possible.

 

[ehlow]

perhaps the nuance in language is that I can't find a quote where Hudak said he would cancel all LRTs....I have seen where he said he would cancel "LRTs in the suburbs".

Perhaps, then, he does not view Eglinton as a suburban route...that he views mid-town as very much a part of the city and that he plans to continue with it but would rather see as much (all?) of it buried as possible.

There are many ways to interpret his vague comments. He may also change his position from past statements. Often even if a politician gets elected they may not do as they said during the campaign anyways. In addition to all that, I doubt think it's even clear to them what their position is, and I doubt their knowledge in transit matters. That's why I feel it's somewhat of a waste of time speculating on what would happen to Eglinton if Hudak wins.

 

[TOareaFan]

There are many ways to interpret his vague comments. He may also change his position from past statements. Often even if a politician gets elected they may not do as they said during the campaign anyways. In addition to all that, I doubt think it's even clear to them what their position is, and I doubt their knowledge in transit matters. That's why I feel it's somewhat of a waste of time speculating on what would happen to Eglinton if Hudak wins.

no doubt, not all statements by parties (any party) during an election become part of the agenda once we pick a winner.

I was simply trying to help people who were struggling with the inconsistency between the "cancel all LRTs" statement and the 'bury Eglinton as much as possible" statement. As I said, I can't find where he ever said " cancel all LRTs" but can find where he says "cancel LRTs in the suburbs"....so I thought that might be the bridge between the positions and might offer some hope to those that fear Hudak's first action would be to halt Eglinton.......of course we do know that Harris stopped a rapid transit route on Eglinton so we really don't have to guess...of course Hudak will cancel Eglinton because of that

 

[TOareaFan]

I always wondered if people in San Francisco, Buffalo, Newark, Calgary, and Edmonton consider the underground portions of their respective LRT systems subways.

I am probably more of a "layman" than most of the regular posters on here and, yes, I consider Eglinton to be, mostly a subway. As for those above, i bet you the average guy's nomenclature would depend on how much of it goes underground. To use Calgary, very little of it goes underground and where it does it is to get around/past something so most probably don't think of it as a subway but as an LRT with some bits underground. Kinda like the Spadina line here or if, say, the Hurontario line went underground from Steeles to Brampton GO (as some would want) it would still be an LRT with a bit underground.

That may "offend' some definitions (it is not meant to) and if it does I think people offended by that may have to get prepped for the years after 2020 when a lot of people talk of getting on the little subway on Eglinton (just my guess at how it will be tagged).

 

[ehlow]

I am probably more of a "layman" than most of the regular posters on here and, yes, I consider Eglinton to be, mostly a subway. As for those above, i bet you the average guy's nomenclature would depend on how much of it goes underground. To use Calgary, very little of it goes underground and where it does it is to get around/past something so most probably don't think of it as a subway but as an LRT with some bits underground. Kinda like the Spadina line here or if, say, the Hurontario line went underground from Steeles to Brampton GO (as some would want) it would still be an LRT with a bit underground.

That may "offend' some definitions (it is not meant to) and if it does I think people offended by that may have to get prepped for the years after 2020 when a lot of people talk of getting on the little subway on Eglinton (just my guess at how it will be tagged).

I already hear people talking about the "subway construction", and I always feel awkward saying "underground LRT" instead of subway.

The thing with Eglinton is that a lot of people will not use the surface part, and to those people their whole experience using it will be underground.

 

[TOareaFan]

I already hear people talking about the "subway construction", and I always feel awkward saying "underground LRT" instead of subway.

The thing with Eglinton is that a lot of people will not use the surface part, and to those people their whole experience using it will be underground.

My (very) un-technical analysis/opinion is that we may be blessed that the first true LRT to open in the GTA is a line like Eglinton with such a long underground section that people may determine to be a "subway".

There has been such a heated and public debate about whether LRTs are rapid transit or if they are just "glorified streetcars" I think a certain segment of the public may have been dissuaded from using an all above ground LRT. With Eglinton, I think people will be attracted to it in the underground section and if their journey takes them out above ground (at either end) they may just see the merits of above ground LRT and be less afraid of it the next time it is proposed. Just a thought....too bad we have to wait 6 more years to see it in action.