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The capacity of the short turned section will ultimately depend on the track geometry. This is because it takes a non insignificant amount of time for trains to maneuver through crossovers. Hopefully Metrolinx designed Don Mills crossover in such a way that it will limit the time needed for these maneuvers.

That's true. But there is another potential concern with a Don Mills short turn: the line will not be fully grade-separate between Brentcliffe and Don Mills. That precludes ATO (at least in the near future; perhaps ATO will eventually become intelligent enough to handle on-street operations).

Without ATO, headways will have to be somewhat wider.

On the other hand, short-turning at Brentcliffe or at Bayview would make the short-turn branch practically useless east of Yonge (although still useful between Yonge and Mt Dennis).
 
At a platform length of approx. 100m, there should be no reason why EC can't exceed the limit of the Skytrain system (25K pphpd) on the basis of station infrastructure alone, when their stations only has an 80m platform. Now you will probably need grade separation at the eastern end and new trains, but that's another story.

AoD

Rebuilding the east end, in order to grade-separate it, would be a monumental task; wouldn't it?

Besides, does any existing Skytrain line with 80-m platforms actually carry 25K pphpd at present? Or, is it just "capable of carrying 25K according to specs"? This is not necessarily the same ..
 
Heard from a worker at McDonalds (At Eglinton-Bayview) that they are closing in November as the site will be used for construction of the station at Bayview.
 
That's true. But there is another potential concern with a Don Mills short turn: the line will not be fully grade-separate between Brentcliffe and Don Mills. That precludes ATO (at least in the near future; perhaps ATO will eventually become intelligent enough to handle on-street operations).

Without ATO, headways will have to be somewhat wider.

On the other hand, short-turning at Brentcliffe or at Bayview would make the short-turn branch practically useless east of Yonge (although still useful between Yonge and Mt Dennis).

The short turn really only will make sense at Don Mills because very few riders board between Yonge and Laird.
 
Rebuilding the east end, in order to grade-separate it, would be a monumental task; wouldn't it?

Besides, does any existing Skytrain line with 80-m platforms actually carry 25K pphpd at present? Or, is it just "capable of carrying 25K according to specs"? This is not necessarily the same ..

We are building a tunnel through a built-up area with two subway interchanges - grade separation (elevated or tunneled) x years down the road in a suburban stretch with a wide arterial isn't all monumental relatively speaking.

As to 25k - it's the design capacity - I think 15k is the current peak. The Canada Line with a 40 (expandable to 50) m platform max at 15k. Clearly EC station platform length are not likely going to be the limiter in the foreseeable future.

AoD
 
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I thought I would post this for the folks who want elevated lines as the picture says a 1,000 words.

SAN DIEGO Union Tribune reports that it will cost $13 million to relocate utilities to build the Metropolitan Transit System [MTS - "San Diego Trolley"] extension from Old Town north to the upscale seaside resort of La Jolla and the University of California-San Diego campus:
<http://tinyurl.com/ozf57cw>
"
SD paying $13M to clear trolley path
City sewer, water customers must cover cost to move utilities along La Jolla extension route

By David Garrick
4 p.m. Aug. 18, 2015
ImageProxy.mvc
Rendering of a proposed 'Mid Coast Corridor' trolley station with elevated tracks, outdoor platforms and stairs. This is an image for the Executive Drive station. Courtesy SANDAG


SAN DIEGO — San Diego officials say the city’s water and sewer customers must cover the $13 million cost of moving pipes, casings and other structures in the pathway of the San Diego Trolley’s 11-mile La Jolla extension.

The city will also provide five pieces of property valued at $3.5 million to allow construction of trolley stations and maintenance areas along the nearly $2 billion line, which is scheduled to begin operating in 2020.

The city’s contributions are part of four agreements the City Council approved in late July with the San Diego Association of Governments, a regional planning agency scheduled to begin construction of the La Jolla extension next year.

Council members said the land and utilities work are appropriate contributions for the city to make to a crucial addition to the region’s transportation network.

“The importance of the trolley extension to University City can’t be overstated,” said Council President Sherri Lightner, whose district includes the northern portion of the new line. “This shows the city and the region are doing our part to increase transit ridership and reduce the strain on our roadways.”

The nine-station line, which will run from Old Town to UTC mall mostly along Morena Boulevard, will connect the trolley for the first time to UC San Diego and large employment centers nearby, allowing more people to commute by mass transit.

Councilman Todd Gloria said the project might not be possible without the city’s contribution.

Previous license agreements between the city and railroad operators gave San Diego essentially no choice regarding the utilities work, said James Nagelvoort, San Diego’s director of public works.

“We have assets that are within the right-of-way of the railroad tracks and double tracking that need to be relocated,” Nagelvoort said. “The railroad has prior rights, so it’s our legal responsibility to pay the cost of relocating those water and sewer assets.”

Those costs could force the city to raise water and sewer rates, which are based on how much it costs to serve the city’s 275,000 customers, including construction projects.

Ratepayers are already facing a proposed 17 percent hike in January based on higher costs for imported water and the city’s plan to begin building facilities that can recycle sewer water into drinking water.

Moving water and sewer pipes and other structures to make way for the main light-rail track to La Jolla will cost just under $4 million. But an additional $9 million is required to move such structures that are within the path of a second parallel track planned for heavy-rail trains, including Amtrak and freight trains.

The five pieces of land the city will donate, which total 8 acres, were valued at $3.5 million to $3.6 million recently by an independent appraiser, city officials said.

Two of the pieces are a 1.9-acre parcel slated to become the Tecolote Road station and a 2.1-acre parcel slated to become the Balboa Avenue station.

Other stations on the line will be the Old Town Transit Center, Clairemont Drive, Nobel Drive, the Veterans Administration Medical Center, UCSD East/Voigt Drive and UCSD West/Pepper Canyon. Construction will include a bridge over Interstate 5 into UCSD.

Officials said design work for the project is 65 percent complete, with construction expected to begin early next year. Design work for the utilities relocation is 95 percent complete, with construction expected to begin shortly.

The federal government is expected to cover half the project’s nearly $2 billion cost with a transit administration grant, said John Haggerty, who is overseeing the project for SANDAG.

The other half will be covered by Transnet, the county’s half-cent sales tax surcharge for transportation projects. Haggerty said the contribution from Transnet could be reduced if state grants or other funding sources are secured.
 
I think Vancouver has shown us that they key is to elevate over to one side of the road, not over the median. That way you don't need those awful pedestrian overpasses.
 
Honestly elevation of Eglinton east is fine
Agreed... Its fine for Eglinton west as well... They should have just elevated both ends and connected it to the SRT and been done with it. Fords' plan was dumb simply because it was the most expensive option underground. Other than that it wasn't as dumb as people made it out to be, and I'm not even a Ford fan.
 
Actually, I think the underground option was similar in cost to some of the proposed Scarborough Subway plans, depending on the route.

The Billion dollar question is who opposed the elevated option. Ford always talked about staying out of traffic. The Fords were the ones who proposed a monorail for downtown - monorail of course means elevated. I suspect that all Ford wanted was to get the Eglinton line away from traffic. He did not care (or know about) details such as type of grade separation or vehicle type. In all my search, I could not find out who opposed the elevation.

Anyways, that Ford-McGuinty plan was very close to being great with only minor modification. I do not see any similar modification that can be made to the subway plan that would make it as good as that original plan could have been.
 
Well the Ford plan was on the table before the RT was planned to be buried. If people knew how much the RT conversion was going to cost they may have voted for Ford plan. The real crime was never considering elevated LRT.
 
Perhaps Tory can be convinced to do an elevated line in the West, instead of Smarttrack?

This way it will still be seen as an "express" alternative to Smarttrack, whereas at-grade LRT is seen as being a slower alternative.
 
Perhaps Tory can be convinced to do an elevated line in the West, instead of Smarttrack?
This way it will still be seen as an "express" alternative to Smarttrack, whereas at-grade LRT is seen as being a slower alternative.

Elevated seems like a no-brainer choice for crossing the low spots such as the Humber River Valley, similar to how the Bloor Subway crosses the same river. If built on the south side, it would have a lot of esthetic value across the Islington-Martin Grove stretch, especially compared to a center-of-road alignment. No one benefits by constricting auto traffic here - it's a major roadway that ties in to the 401/427.

Don't rule out the Fords getting heavily involved in any LRT plan, eventually. This is their home turf. Elevated gives all the benefits of underground, at lower cost (how much lower, I wonder?). Takes some wind out of their sails.

- Paul
 

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