[Streety McCarface]

No loops in the transit system please...just make it a grid system with simple transfers at stations, it makes traveling so much faster.

 

[sixrings]

agreed with grids for the win.

 

[syn]

There would be no need of a transfer if Eglinton was 100% grade separated either below or above ground since it could carry the capacity. People would transfer at the DRL though. I have zero faith that Eglinton East is happening in the next 20 years so thats a sacrifice I was willing to make. I hate to say that Robs plan in hindsight actually looks like the best plan we had at least for this corridor.

Reply

Ah, I thought you were referring to a connection with the existing RT.

The problem with Rob's plan is that it ate all the available funding (and more) for all other projects. It was a move almost guaranteed to be rejected by council and planning experts.

agreed with grids for the win.

Implementing a grid in Scarborough seems incredibly difficult for some reason.

The SSE runs off-grid. Even this Eglinton East LRT extension isn't on a simple grid.

Based on that idea, a transfer at Kennedy to head north actually makes a lot of sense.

I'd also say loops are only as complicated as one makes them - the DRL long is something of a 'loop' south of Bloor, but I don't think anyone will have an issue with it (nor will they have an issue transferring at Bloor to head east or west".

 

[sixrings]

The problem with Rob's plan is that it ate all the available funding (and more) for all other projects. It was a move almost guaranteed to be rejected by council and planning experts.
.

the Scarborough subway sadly eats at more funding and there is less stations. As stupid as an underground LRT is, I would rather it with stops between Don Mills and Kennedy and then above ground stops at Lawrence, Ellesemere, Midland, STC, Mccowan, then the one stop subway we are getting now...

 

[BurlOak]

No loops in the transit system please...just make it a grid system with simple transfers at stations, it makes traveling so much faster.

Interesting that the post above yours show the existing transit map with virtually none following a grid - except for Sheppard. Several can be considered close, I suppose. Montreal and Vancouver also don't follow a grid.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Interesting that the post above yours show the existing transit map with virtually none following a grid - except for Sheppard. Several can be considered close, I suppose. Montreal and Vancouver also don't follow a grid.

There are some discrepancies, yes, but the idea that the SRT LRT replacement and EELRT should loop together or the Sheppard subway and SSE should loop are extremely dumb. With the EELRT, yes, you have to switch the direction of the line because of the geography of Scarborough (Eglinton leads into Kingston Rd, etc), but in general, it runs in a sort of radial manner in which it follows a path to midtown (or downtown if you're transferring at Kennedy). The proposed SSE (and current SRT) do this as well, since the SSE roughly follows Danforth up to Lawrence and SRT being a different line entirely basically follows the rail corridor. Toronto is not designed for transit loops because its most dense areas are along the waterfront (unlike Tokyo for instance, which can be served by a loop line since its downtown is landlocked). Toronto can have crosstown lines (like the Crosstown, a midtown corridor, or a Sheppard line) to bypass the downtown core like "loop" lines in other cities, but loop lines themselves really make no sense in Toronto, especially in Scarborough, where half the population commutes to other areas of the city.

 

[Megaton327]

Quick video of the MSF at Mount Dennis from the window of a UPX train I was on today (I don't really follow this thread so apologies if something similar has been posted recently)

https://streamable.com/t3lmn

 

[Rainforest]

They could transfer at the DRL instead of Yonge...

Yes and no. A good idea, in principle.

The trouble is that DRL Long is barely on the shopping list today. Everyone is still struggling to get DRL Phase 1 funded, and hopefully it will get funded in the next few years; but Phase 1 will only go to Pape/Danforth. Nobody knows when it will reach Eglinton.

I think the reason people voted against this is because they knew every corridor like Finch would demand 100% grade separation as well and they know financially this isnt feasible and takes part of the benefit of LRT away (affordable expansion)

Agreed, that motive could have been involved.

 

[sixrings]

Yes and no. A good idea, in principle.

The trouble is that DRL Long is barely on the shopping list today. Everyone is still struggling to get DRL Phase 1 funded, and hopefully it will get funded in the next few years; but Phase 1 will only go to Pape/Danforth. Nobody knows when it will reach Eglinton.



Agreed, that motive could have been involved.

it would force the government into building the DRL LONG/. its needed anyways with a yonge extension

 

[syn]

the Scarborough subway sadly eats at more funding and there is less stations. As stupid as an underground LRT is, I would rather it with stops between Don Mills and Kennedy and then above ground stops at Lawrence, Ellesemere, Midland, STC, Mccowan, then the one stop subway we are getting now...

I'm not really sure about that.

At the time, the basic estimate doubled the cost (so over $4.1 billion extra). We know that Ford's transit plans were notoriously underpriced (see 32km of subways for $9 billion in 2014, with no increases in taxes).

I'd say the cost would've been well above what was estimated at the time.

In any case, it's ridiculous we consistently have to accept idiotic transit plans just because it's better than something even worse.

It's too bad we can't actually spend our transit dollars wisely, with plans devised by transit experts.

 

[syn]

There are some discrepancies, yes, but the idea that the SRT LRT replacement and EELRT should loop together or the Sheppard subway and SSE should loop are extremely dumb. With the EELRT, yes, you have to switch the direction of the line because of the geography of Scarborough (Eglinton leads into Kingston Rd, etc), but in general, it runs in a sort of radial manner in which it follows a path to midtown (or downtown if you're transferring at Kennedy). The proposed SSE (and current SRT) do this as well, since the SSE roughly follows Danforth up to Lawrence and SRT being a different line entirely basically follows the rail corridor. Toronto is not designed for transit loops because its most dense areas are along the waterfront (unlike Tokyo for instance, which can be served by a loop line since its downtown is landlocked). Toronto can have crosstown lines (like the Crosstown, a midtown corridor, or a Sheppard line) to bypass the downtown core like "loop" lines in other cities, but loop lines themselves really make no sense in Toronto, especially in Scarborough, where half the population commutes to other areas of the city.

The entire SSE is 'extremely dumb' because the most dense, subway worthy corridors are in the old city.

Scarborough is not designed for subways, yet they're building one anyways.

A looped LRT would not simply run in one direction - it would provide faster access to new RER/SmartTrack stations being built and inter-Scarborough travel.

It's certainly seems like a wiser use of money than other investments being made.

 

[BurlOak]

I'm not really sure about that.

At the time, the basic estimate doubled the cost (so over $4.1 billion extra). We know that Ford's transit plans were notoriously underpriced (see 32km of subways for $9 billion in 2014, with no increases in taxes).

I'd say the cost would've been well above what was estimated at the time.

In any case, it's ridiculous we consistently have to accept idiotic transit plans just because it's better than something even worse.

It's too bad we can't actually spend our transit dollars wisely, with plans devised by transit experts.

Finch ($1.5B) and Sheppard ($1.1B) were to be cancelled and put towards the Eg-Scar LRT - and there was to be $600M left over. thus, it was $2B extra.
and of course if they had taken this seriously and explored elevated portion over the Don Valley and near Kennedy Station (which is basically the entire thing) as stated in the MOU, they could have shaved that down significantly. Since Ford knew that all savings would go towards Sheppard, it seems obvious that he would have gladly done anything to this line (as long as it's grade-separated) so that more money could be sent to Sheppard.

 

[44 North]

Finch ($1.5B) and Sheppard ($1.1B) were to be cancelled and put towards the Eg-Scar LRT - and there was to be $600M left over. thus, it was $2B extra.
and of course if they had taken this seriously and explored elevated portion over the Don Valley and near Kennedy Station (which is basically the entire thing) as stated in the MOU, they could have shaved that down significantly. Since Ford knew that all savings would go towards Sheppard, it seems obvious that he would have gladly done anything to this line (as long as it's grade-separated) so that more money could be sent to Sheppard.

I dunno man. I've been a supporter of the grassroots concept for elevated on Eglinton East since the moment the MOU was signed, and gladly called out Mlinx, the Prov, TOPlanning/Council/TTC for not ever considering it. But I really can't see evidence that Metrolinx was moving toward it when they showed the all-underground contrary, or that Ford would've accepted it since the guy went out of his way to stress *underground* every chance he could get. Besides the Ford administration didn't require more money sent to Sheppard since the touted "private sector" and Feds were to pay for all of it. Well, at least according to him.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Finch ($1.5B) and Sheppard ($1.1B) were to be cancelled and put towards the Eg-Scar LRT - and there was to be $600M left over. thus, it was $2B extra.
and of course if they had taken this seriously and explored elevated portion over the Don Valley and near Kennedy Station (which is basically the entire thing) as stated in the MOU, they could have shaved that down significantly. Since Ford knew that all savings would go towards Sheppard, it seems obvious that he would have gladly done anything to this line (as long as it's grade-separated) so that more money could be sent to Sheppard.

This would have worked but then no Eglinton West, and that is where Rob lived. The question is where is the money for the rest of the projects at that point.

 

[syn]

This would have worked but then no Eglinton West, and that is where Rob lived. The question is where is the money for the rest of the projects at that point.

No Eglinton West, no Crosstown East, no Waterfront LRT (which was probably already canceled at that point anyways)...it would've taken all available funding, and more.

It's kind of interesting that Scarberians speak of being ignored/underserved/oppressed, yet have no problem taking funding for an important project in another part of the city just so they don't have to be above ground.

If Ford was serious about the project, he would've had a legitimate funding plan in place - but instead it was yet another 'divide and conquer' strategy.